Delray
Active member
A member sent me a private message asking for my thoughts on the GT vs. the B650. My response is pasted below. Perhaps it will be helpful to someone else who is shopping for a mega-scooter.
I've been in the market myself looking for a second scooter. I'm putting miles on my '17 BMW C650 GT at an alarming rate and another bike will spread the workload and add enjoyment (diversity).
Yesterday I looked at and rode a '16 BMW C650 Sport. Seemed like a great bike -- 25 lbs. less than the GT with a sportier design. It felt more "flickable" and fun but definitely smaller and I didn't like that. Plus it was rough around the edges with scratches from being dropped and stains on the faring from "something that dripped from the ceiling."
I'm seeing a 2010 Honda Silver Wing 600 today and if it looks and runs good, I'll probably buy it. I've owned three.
To your questions ....
"Do you feel the GT is worth it? Should I stick to the V.2 years of '16 '17, and '19?"
Not sure why you left '18 and '20 out of your V.2 options, but my answer is 100% YES YES YES. Oh, and in case I didn't mention, YES YES YES YES YES! The GT is the best mega-scooter in the world by a country mile. There isn't a close second. The combination of ride + technology + reliability + BMW quality is untouched. It SOUNDS like a BMW motorcycle and certainly handles like one. It's so well-engineered it feels like it corners itself. The trunk (seat) closes with a solid BMW "thunk." The technology ... heated seat and grips, live tire pressure reading, electric windscreen, etc. are pure pleasure every time I ride. And YES YES YES to buying 2016 and later. I've heard there were chain tensioner and other issues with V.1, while V.2 not only solved them, but made a bunch of positive changes (including the motorcycle-sounding muffler that sounds cool every time I accelerate ;o).
I copied a list of changes to the V.2 and will paste them at the end of this post. They're long.
"Then there's maintenance costs."
If you just want reliability and low maintenace, you want Honda Silver Wing. I'm no mechanical wizard, but with the Wing I learned to change engine and gear oil, spark plugs and brake pads, coolant and brake fluid, even the drive belt and rollers. It's simple. It works. You could bury a Honda for six years in the desert, dig it up and it would start right up. Get a Honda service manual and the work is easy. Parts are cheap and available and there are a million YouTube videos to help.
So far with the BMW, it's been 100% reliable. It may end up being more reliable than the Silver Wings I've had because of newer technology. Silver Wing is basically 2002 technology; that's when they were introduced and they were never really updated. They made it great out of the gate and built them until 2013, which is the "newest" model you can get in the U.S.
I managed to acquire an official service manual for the BMW GT from a guy in the U.K. and am looking forward to doing the maintenance. The manual is written with German efficiency and thoroughness, so I think it'll be fine. Parts cost a bit more because ... BMW.
"Big Burgers are out there in droves. Suzie dealers abound....and there's just a gut feeling I get that Burgers are all sufficiently ironed-out at this point."
Burgman 650 is a great bike. It has a BIG ride. I call it the Lincoln Towne Car of scooters. And you're right. Suzuki dealers (who also usually work on Silver Wings) are everywhere.
However, to me, the big Burger is like driving a big bathtub. It's nicknamed "Ol' Lardy" for a reason. On the highway it's untouchable. It even beats the GT in that regard (by a whisker, not a lot). Reliability and maintenance costs are similar to Honda (although, again, I have no reason to say the GT isn't just as reliable, and if you can do basic maintenance yourself, it isn't that expensive and you don't have to do it that often).
Here, too, Suzuki did a V.2 in 2013 that is a light-years improvement, with CVT enhancements, easier to push the beast around, etc. The B650 has a "lifetime" drive belt you never have to change, although common sense says it will break eventually -- Suzuki figures that's over 100,000 miles so they call it lifetime. It costs around $4k to change a belt, so by the time it breaks, you're going to pay more for the belt than the bike is worth. That's why it's called a "throwaway" bike. That said, I have seen a lot of Burgman 650's with ridiculous amounts of miles on them and they never had a belt issue. I liked mine a lot. It was just too unwieldy in parking lots when I was running errands. Plus the cost of a potential belt break freaked me out. I traded it for Silver Wing reliaibility.
Burgman and Honda both have great forums with lots of comparisions between the "big 3" of scooters.
Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with a big scooter. I'll never go back to shifting. My enjoyment and (more importantly) reaction time while riding is exponentially better. If a car cuts you off and you have to react quickly, there's no, "Oh cr*p, what gear should I be in? Will I stall?" With a big scooter, you go, or you don't go. It's instinctual. I love them (as you can probably tell from my prodigious reply ;o).
Good luck!
CHANGES TO V.2 BMW C650 GT (COPIED AND PASTED)
OVERALL
New suspension and damping set-up for an ideal compromise between
sport and comfort.
In addition to ABS, now also ASC is standard for maximum safety when
accelerating.
Completely new, dynamic design for the C 650 Sport.
Detailed stylistic fine-tuning for the C 650 GT.
New silencer. The new exhaust system is made of stainless steel as before, but does not have a front silencer. Fitted only with a rear silencer, it now offers a particularly full and sonorous sound and dynamic new look.
New instrument dial design.
New handlebar trim elements with chrome applications.
New, higher-quality surfaces (graining effects).
Automatic daytime riding light.
Revised kinematics of the center stand for easier use.
New rider assistance system Side View Assist (SVA) for the C 650 GT.
New paint finishes for the C 650 Sport: Valencia Orange metallic matt,
Light White non-metallic and Black Storm metallic.
New paint finishes for the C 650 GT: Black Storm metallic, Frozen
Bronze metallic and Light White non-metallic.
TECHNOLOGY
New CVT set-up and revised clutch linings for more dynamic clutch engagement and a more spontaneous set-off response (faster off the line). Power transmission from directly integrated CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) which underwent extensive adaptations for use in the new C 650 Sport and the new C 650 GT.
Softer springs and optimized clutch linings used in the centrifugal clutch.
Powerful 2-cylinder in-line engine with new set-up, optimized CVT and new exhaust system.
In order to achieve a low mounting position and therefore a low center of gravity, the engine has a cylinder bank that is tilted forward by 70 degrees. The characteristic sound and low level of vibration are due to the 90-degree crankpin offset, 270-degree ignition spacing and two counterbalance shafts powered by spur gears.
The sophisticated cooling concept to BMW Motorrad standards ensures optimum thermal balance in the 2-cylinder in-line engine. Here, coolant flows transversely through the cylinder head, entering at the front of the cylinder head on the hot exhaust side. The intensive cooling effect rapidly dissipates the heat precisely at the point of maximum thermal stress, thereby ensuring excellent temperature compensation. The aluminum radiator with plastic water containers and integrated thermostat has the same high-performance radiator network as is used in BMW motorcycles. Due to its high degree of efficiency and excellent air intake and through-flow, a relatively small surface is sufficient for operationally reliable heat dissipation in all conditions.
Carburation of the 4-valve engine with two overhead camshafts is taken care of by an electronic fuel injection system. Meanwhile oil is supplied by a dry sump system with a dual oil pump, and an efficient cooling concept ensures optimum thermal balance in the 2-cylinder engine. Engine mapping was redefined for use in the new C 650 Sport and the new C 650 GT with a view to satisfying the requirements of the EU4 pollutant class.
In addition to increased roller weights, the transmission ratio spread of the CVT has been increased from 2.42 to 2.95. The long CVT ratio is now 0.82 instead of 1.00. The gear reduction ratio between the CVT output shaft and driven shaft has been shortened from 2.72 to 3.28. In addition to a more spontaneous set-off response, this also makes for an increased top speed (180 rather than 175 km/h), or 111 mph).
I've been in the market myself looking for a second scooter. I'm putting miles on my '17 BMW C650 GT at an alarming rate and another bike will spread the workload and add enjoyment (diversity).
Yesterday I looked at and rode a '16 BMW C650 Sport. Seemed like a great bike -- 25 lbs. less than the GT with a sportier design. It felt more "flickable" and fun but definitely smaller and I didn't like that. Plus it was rough around the edges with scratches from being dropped and stains on the faring from "something that dripped from the ceiling."
I'm seeing a 2010 Honda Silver Wing 600 today and if it looks and runs good, I'll probably buy it. I've owned three.
To your questions ....
"Do you feel the GT is worth it? Should I stick to the V.2 years of '16 '17, and '19?"
Not sure why you left '18 and '20 out of your V.2 options, but my answer is 100% YES YES YES. Oh, and in case I didn't mention, YES YES YES YES YES! The GT is the best mega-scooter in the world by a country mile. There isn't a close second. The combination of ride + technology + reliability + BMW quality is untouched. It SOUNDS like a BMW motorcycle and certainly handles like one. It's so well-engineered it feels like it corners itself. The trunk (seat) closes with a solid BMW "thunk." The technology ... heated seat and grips, live tire pressure reading, electric windscreen, etc. are pure pleasure every time I ride. And YES YES YES to buying 2016 and later. I've heard there were chain tensioner and other issues with V.1, while V.2 not only solved them, but made a bunch of positive changes (including the motorcycle-sounding muffler that sounds cool every time I accelerate ;o).
I copied a list of changes to the V.2 and will paste them at the end of this post. They're long.
"Then there's maintenance costs."
If you just want reliability and low maintenace, you want Honda Silver Wing. I'm no mechanical wizard, but with the Wing I learned to change engine and gear oil, spark plugs and brake pads, coolant and brake fluid, even the drive belt and rollers. It's simple. It works. You could bury a Honda for six years in the desert, dig it up and it would start right up. Get a Honda service manual and the work is easy. Parts are cheap and available and there are a million YouTube videos to help.
So far with the BMW, it's been 100% reliable. It may end up being more reliable than the Silver Wings I've had because of newer technology. Silver Wing is basically 2002 technology; that's when they were introduced and they were never really updated. They made it great out of the gate and built them until 2013, which is the "newest" model you can get in the U.S.
I managed to acquire an official service manual for the BMW GT from a guy in the U.K. and am looking forward to doing the maintenance. The manual is written with German efficiency and thoroughness, so I think it'll be fine. Parts cost a bit more because ... BMW.
"Big Burgers are out there in droves. Suzie dealers abound....and there's just a gut feeling I get that Burgers are all sufficiently ironed-out at this point."
Burgman 650 is a great bike. It has a BIG ride. I call it the Lincoln Towne Car of scooters. And you're right. Suzuki dealers (who also usually work on Silver Wings) are everywhere.
However, to me, the big Burger is like driving a big bathtub. It's nicknamed "Ol' Lardy" for a reason. On the highway it's untouchable. It even beats the GT in that regard (by a whisker, not a lot). Reliability and maintenance costs are similar to Honda (although, again, I have no reason to say the GT isn't just as reliable, and if you can do basic maintenance yourself, it isn't that expensive and you don't have to do it that often).
Here, too, Suzuki did a V.2 in 2013 that is a light-years improvement, with CVT enhancements, easier to push the beast around, etc. The B650 has a "lifetime" drive belt you never have to change, although common sense says it will break eventually -- Suzuki figures that's over 100,000 miles so they call it lifetime. It costs around $4k to change a belt, so by the time it breaks, you're going to pay more for the belt than the bike is worth. That's why it's called a "throwaway" bike. That said, I have seen a lot of Burgman 650's with ridiculous amounts of miles on them and they never had a belt issue. I liked mine a lot. It was just too unwieldy in parking lots when I was running errands. Plus the cost of a potential belt break freaked me out. I traded it for Silver Wing reliaibility.
Burgman and Honda both have great forums with lots of comparisions between the "big 3" of scooters.
Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with a big scooter. I'll never go back to shifting. My enjoyment and (more importantly) reaction time while riding is exponentially better. If a car cuts you off and you have to react quickly, there's no, "Oh cr*p, what gear should I be in? Will I stall?" With a big scooter, you go, or you don't go. It's instinctual. I love them (as you can probably tell from my prodigious reply ;o).
Good luck!
CHANGES TO V.2 BMW C650 GT (COPIED AND PASTED)
OVERALL
New suspension and damping set-up for an ideal compromise between
sport and comfort.
In addition to ABS, now also ASC is standard for maximum safety when
accelerating.
Completely new, dynamic design for the C 650 Sport.
Detailed stylistic fine-tuning for the C 650 GT.
New silencer. The new exhaust system is made of stainless steel as before, but does not have a front silencer. Fitted only with a rear silencer, it now offers a particularly full and sonorous sound and dynamic new look.
New instrument dial design.
New handlebar trim elements with chrome applications.
New, higher-quality surfaces (graining effects).
Automatic daytime riding light.
Revised kinematics of the center stand for easier use.
New rider assistance system Side View Assist (SVA) for the C 650 GT.
New paint finishes for the C 650 Sport: Valencia Orange metallic matt,
Light White non-metallic and Black Storm metallic.
New paint finishes for the C 650 GT: Black Storm metallic, Frozen
Bronze metallic and Light White non-metallic.
TECHNOLOGY
New CVT set-up and revised clutch linings for more dynamic clutch engagement and a more spontaneous set-off response (faster off the line). Power transmission from directly integrated CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) which underwent extensive adaptations for use in the new C 650 Sport and the new C 650 GT.
Softer springs and optimized clutch linings used in the centrifugal clutch.
Powerful 2-cylinder in-line engine with new set-up, optimized CVT and new exhaust system.
In order to achieve a low mounting position and therefore a low center of gravity, the engine has a cylinder bank that is tilted forward by 70 degrees. The characteristic sound and low level of vibration are due to the 90-degree crankpin offset, 270-degree ignition spacing and two counterbalance shafts powered by spur gears.
The sophisticated cooling concept to BMW Motorrad standards ensures optimum thermal balance in the 2-cylinder in-line engine. Here, coolant flows transversely through the cylinder head, entering at the front of the cylinder head on the hot exhaust side. The intensive cooling effect rapidly dissipates the heat precisely at the point of maximum thermal stress, thereby ensuring excellent temperature compensation. The aluminum radiator with plastic water containers and integrated thermostat has the same high-performance radiator network as is used in BMW motorcycles. Due to its high degree of efficiency and excellent air intake and through-flow, a relatively small surface is sufficient for operationally reliable heat dissipation in all conditions.
Carburation of the 4-valve engine with two overhead camshafts is taken care of by an electronic fuel injection system. Meanwhile oil is supplied by a dry sump system with a dual oil pump, and an efficient cooling concept ensures optimum thermal balance in the 2-cylinder engine. Engine mapping was redefined for use in the new C 650 Sport and the new C 650 GT with a view to satisfying the requirements of the EU4 pollutant class.
In addition to increased roller weights, the transmission ratio spread of the CVT has been increased from 2.42 to 2.95. The long CVT ratio is now 0.82 instead of 1.00. The gear reduction ratio between the CVT output shaft and driven shaft has been shortened from 2.72 to 3.28. In addition to a more spontaneous set-off response, this also makes for an increased top speed (180 rather than 175 km/h), or 111 mph).
