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C650 sport performance test

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Putnam

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Hi all,

I will share some performance tests of my 2016 c 650 sport.

I recently purchased the scooter as used.
It already had an akrapovic muffler and a Malossi variator. (Since the previous owner also gave me all stock/other parts, I noticed that the 22gr rollers were in their box, so I assume the variator has the 24gr installed.

On this setup, right after purchase, I tested acceleration times (mostly roll ons), using a racelogic performance box.

I will post 100-150 km/h (62-93 mp/h) timeslips on all different setups.

So, akrapovic slip on (db killers off), Malossi variator, stock headers. The time was 8.33 seconds.

Then I ordered the arrow (decat) headers.

Meanwhile, I installed the db killers on the akrapovic.

Headers arrived and did the second test. Time got higher at 9.21 seconds.

I was already suspicious, that db killers affect performance, so, right after this test, I removed the db killers and did another test.

Time dropped to 7.40 seconds.

I will also share trap speeds for 1/4 on all these setups:

1. 151 km/h
2. 147 km/h
3. 154 km/h

Right now I am searching for an ecu tune, to get the most out of this engine, but also to run safe. Hopefully it doesn’t run too lean.

Any comments/suggestions?
 
CVT tuning is a non-linear, fine "art".
Some notice that higher RPMs elicit more horsepower.
I notice that lighter rollers slow down gearing ratio change.
It has become my habit to try and get heavier rollers so that gearing ratio changes almost corresponds to "stock" behavior, even on upgraded variators.

If you have the stock variator, try that with stock-weight SR-series Dr.Pulley rollers.
Another important thing to note is I have noticed that easing the front air intake with a BMC / K&N filter helps the C650 engine more than easing the exhaust, the engine loves some backpressure. Open pipes will slow it down.

But I don't have a Draggy, what do I know.
N.B. If you're into the numbers game, this is the wrong vehicle ;)
 
Well, I got the exact opposite findings on the “exhaust back pressure” matter.
I will agree that stock variator and DrPulleys are a decent combo. But since I got the scooter with the variator installed, no need to experiment further on the cvt.
As for the numbers/performance of the c650, I find it far better than I expected.
For a 250 kg (550 lbs) wet weight scooter, getting 154 km/h trap speed with just a variator and an exhaust upgrade is impressive. I think the ecu tune will get me closer to 160 km/h trap.

I will keep you updated.
 
Putnam said:
Hi all,

I will share some performance tests of my 2016 c 650 sport.

I recently purchased the scooter as used.
It already had an akrapovic muffler and a Malossi variator. (Since the previous owner also gave me all stock/other parts, I noticed that the 22gr rollers were in their box, so I assume the variator has the 24gr installed.

On this setup, right after purchase, I tested acceleration times (mostly roll ons), using a racelogic performance box.

I will post 100-150 km/h (62-93 mp/h) timeslips on all different setups.

So, akrapovic slip on (db killers off), Malossi variator, stock headers. The time was 8.33 seconds.

Then I ordered the arrow (decat) headers.

Meanwhile, I installed the db killers on the akrapovic.

Headers arrived and did the second test. Time got higher at 9.21 seconds.

I was already suspicious, that db killers affect performance, so, right after this test, I removed the db killers and did another test.

Time dropped to 7.40 seconds.

I will also share trap speeds for 1/4 on all these setups:

1. 151 km/h
2. 147 km/h
3. 154 km/h

Right now I am searching for an ecu tune, to get the most out of this engine, but also to run safe. Hopefully it doesn’t run too lean.

Any comments/suggestions?
Click to expand...
It's great that there's someone else interested in tuning this scooter. I'm currently riding a 20gr in a Malossi multivar and red clutch springs. I don't really like this combination and I think I'll go back to 22 grams and yellow springs. It seems to me that it's a bit wobbly at higher revs. I have Malossi exhaust pipes, Akrapovic, Multivar and Malossi filter.
This information is interesting that you achieved better power without the db killer, I'll try that again because I now have a db killer.

Do you have any measurements from 0-100?
 
Limuntus said:
It's great that there's someone else interested in tuning this scooter. I'm currently riding a 20gr in a Malossi multivar and red clutch springs. I don't really like this combination and I think I'll go back to 22 grams and yellow springs. It seems to me that it's a bit wobbly at higher revs. I have Malossi exhaust pipes, Akrapovic, Multivar and Malossi filter.
This information is interesting that you achieved better power without the db killer, I'll try that again because I now have a db killer.

Do you have any measurements from 0-100?
Click to expand...
0-100 is disappointing. It seems that traction control cannot be fully deactivated.
I figured that out when I did a standstill test and electronics cut power off. I did a 6.4 seconds for 0-100. The scooter is easily capable of low 5s, maybe high 4s. I could disable the fuse but I am more interested in roll on tests. I mostly test 50-100, 80-120, 100-130 etc.
 
Posting 60-160 km/h:

Malossi variator, Arrow collectors, Akrapovic silencer, Baffles out - Up

Malossi variator, Arrow collectors, Akrapovic silencer, Baffles in - Down
 

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Putnam said:
Posting 60-160 km/h:

Malossi variator, Arrow collectors, Akrapovic silencer, Baffles out - Up

Malossi variator, Arrow collectors, Akrapovic silencer, Baffles in - Down
Click to expand...
That's just a huge difference. Do you have a new type of Akrapovič with two exits or the old one?
 
Quick update:

I changed the rollers from 24 to 22 gr.
I did the same acceleration test, did the 100-150 km/h in 7,4 seconds, which is the same as for the 24 gr.
According to bmw official dyno (crank) curve, peak power is at 7500 rpm (60 hp) where at 7000 it's almost the same (59+) and at 6500 hp it's 58 hp.
Although my c650 has also a full decat system, it's not easy to estimate hp values at same rpm range.
I would a expect a slight increase in acceleration times, maybe the ambient temperature now (+10 Celsius) played a factor.
I want to eliminate the factor that "higher rpm will bring better results" by trying maybe 20 gr.


Still haven't tuned the ecu.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the update.
"The higher RPM AND the higher transmission ratio" will bring better results.
The thing is that with lighter rollers you do not get higher transmission ratio.
Otherwise that would be a silly game, to get closer to 0 grams ;)
 
When you want maximum performance, you need to fix rpm to peak hp (ideally crank, not whp).
On a scooter, to have this information, is very difficult, practically impossible, so you need to count on the manufacturer's data.
If you lock the variator and perform a dynorun, you will get whp per rpm (like a geared motorcycle).
You cannot perform a coast down in order to calculate roller (dyno drum) loses to get a crank figure. Coast down needs to be done without a gear engaged (you cannot avoid this on a scooter), because you interfere with the measuring of the actual loses.
But even the whp curve can be interpreted as follows:
Dynamometer drum loses are increased exponentially, for example if you have 5 hp loses at 150 km/h, you will have 6-7 loses at 160 km/h.
So, if you have 55 whp at 7000 rpm (150 km/h on dyno) and 55 whp at 7500 (160 km/h on dyno), crank hp would be estimated to be higher at 7500, like 62 hp in comparison to 60 hp at 7000.
A lot of people will rush to think that acceleration would be the same between 7000 and 7500 since whp is the same, but it's not. Why?
Because, hypothetically, if you could get 7500 rpm at the dyno speed of 150 km/h (via lighter rollers, while before you had 7000 rpm - 150 km/h), you would have more whp (probably 62-5=57 whp).
What matters on road performance is crank hp, and it is verified by road tests.
 
If you can lock the variator, why can't you lock the clutch too?
And again, you don't want maximum performance all the time, this gets too boring and too noisy - 7000 rpm from 20kmh to 120kmh like the silly Malossi MHR2000 and the like. To be fun, there needs to be a "bump of power" ahead on your throttle position, not "same torque" when you crank the throttle.
Are you racing for $$$? Then ignore me. I ride the street and like a range in rpm and sound.
I see you still assuming a locked variator, but how the ratio progresses with rpms is an important multiplier of the vehicle velocity.
This factor is absent on motorbikes when you stay in a gear, and changes on rider command. With CVT, light rollers slow down ratio progression and velocity gain.
If the engine torque is sufficient for the vehicle mass at roll-on RPM range, heavier rollers can help to gain speed faster and will feel more "progressive" esp with varying sound - not same drone at 7000 rpm no matter the speed.
Another important factor is friction losses. This is why some prefer a harder torsion spring (see Malossi white spring) on the driven pulley, and not lighter rollers. Tougher spring decreases friction losses and increases rpms (lighter rollers only do the latter).
 
Hi,
I have just did a top speed test on my 2016 c650 sport (Malossi variator 22gr + full decat exhaust).
I got 184,9 km/h gps speed from the pbox as the rpm hit the limiter.
Shouldn’t there be an ecu top speed limiter at 180?
 
Putnam said:
Bok,
Upravo sam napravio test maksimalne brzine na svom c650 sportu iz 2016. (Malossi variator 22gr + puni DECAT ispuh).
Dobio sam GPS brzinu od 184,9 km/h s pboxa kada su okretaji dosegli limitator.
Ne bi li trebao postojati ograničavač maksimalne brzine u ECU-u na 180?
Click to expand...
There is a rev limiter if you were driving 24 gr you would probably have an even higher output speed. Without limiters, some reach close to 200 kmh
 
I want to share my recent findings on the C650's sport performance.
The scooter has a full exhaust and a malossi variator.
For more than a month, I have installed the 20 gr rollers.
I started with 24 gr, then changed to 22 gr and now 20 gr.
All roller setups have been tested in acceleration with a Pbox.

The problem was that due to recent high air temperature, I could only compare 32 Celsius on 20 gr vs 14 Celsius on 24 gr. These two did similar times on 100-150 km/h, slightly better for 20 gr (7.3 seconds vs 7,4 seconds).

Today, finally air temperature dropped to 22 Celsius, so I did another test. I got 6.8 seconds. This is 8.8% improvement compared to 24 gr, and can now safely conclude that this engine has more power at higher rpms.
 
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