K1200LT vs C650GT

[JaimeC]

Well on my ride home last night I figured out one BIG advantage the K1200LT has over the C650GT. It handles cross winds a whole lot better. I attribute this to a few things:

1) Higher center of gravity: Everyone talks about how good it is to have a low center of gravity. However, the closer the center of gravity is to the "center of pressure" (an aerodynamic term referring to that part of a solid object where any wind would have a "neutral effect") the less likely the vehicle will be knocked around by cross winds. The very low CG of the C650GT combined with the windscreen (and top box) makes it very susceptible to cross winds and the like.

2) Bigger wheels: The larger and heavier wheels of the K1200LT give it more gyroscopic resistance to directional changes. The smaller wheels of the C650GT do not generate as much gyroscopic effect.

I was really getting battered by the wind on my way home last night. The only bike I've owned that was better in cross winds than the K1200LT was my old 1992 Yamaha Venture Royale. That one had even bigger, heavier wheels and a higher center of gravity. Made it a bit of a handful at parking lot speeds... but once on the highway it would've taken the hand of God Himself to knock it off course.

I can only imagine what those other scooters with those 12" and 13" "donut wheels" must be like in gusty crosswinds.

 

[Edumakated]

Well on my ride home last night I figured out one BIG advantage the K1200LT has over the C650GT. It handles cross winds a whole lot better. I attribute this to a few things:

1) Higher center of gravity: Everyone talks about how good it is to have a low center of gravity. However, the closer the center of gravity is to the "center of pressure" (an aerodynamic term referring to that part of a solid object where any wind would have a "neutral effect") the less likely the vehicle will be knocked around by cross winds. The very low CG of the C650GT combined with the windscreen (and top box) makes it very susceptible to cross winds and the like.

2) Bigger wheels: The larger and heavier wheels of the K1200LT give it more gyroscopic resistance to directional changes. The smaller wheels of the C650GT do not generate as much gyroscopic effect.

I was really getting battered by the wind on my way home last night. The only bike I've owned that was better in cross winds than the K1200LT was my old 1992 Yamaha Venture Royale. That one had even bigger, heavier wheels and a higher center of gravity. Made it a bit of a handful at parking lot speeds... but once on the highway it would've taken the hand of God Himself to knock it off course.

I can only imagine what those other scooters with those 12" and 13" "donut wheels" must be like in gusty crosswinds.

My Vespa 300 would get blown around a lot. It was very unsettling imho at higher speeds and one of the reasons I bought the c600. I don't know how some people ride Vespa's at 60mph+. Yes, they can do it fairly easily, but I wouldn't call it stable or safe imho.

I find my c600 to fairly solid with cross winds. I guess a heavier bike would be even better but then that kind of would defeat the purpose of owning the c600.

 

[Xian Forbes]

I honestly found the Lambretta to be not so terrible as its such a lightweight low bike with almost no cross-section that it really never seems scary. I would tend to agree with your ideas on the higher CG of a bike being more stable. I would apply a term I learned in flight school called "Moment Arm" The distance from the wheels to the CG would be that arm, and if the Cg is higher then the effective lever would be greater. Then I would think less counter steering would be needed. But even on a scooter like a SYM or a Kymco counter steering is the only way to handle high crosswinds. Just like the rudder on a plane, you just need to use as much rudder as is needed to keep her on center line.

 

[Ensignawesome]

My Vespa 300 would get blown around a lot. It was very unsettling imho at higher speeds and one of the reasons I bought the c600. I don't know how some people ride Vespa's at 60mph+. Yes, they can do it fairly easily, but I wouldn't call it stable or safe imho.

I find my c600 to fairly solid with cross winds. I guess a heavier bike would be even better but then that kind of would defeat the purpose of owning the c600.

Agreed. I used to take my 250 GTV on I-55 and I-290. After 5 or 6 trips I said forget it. I actually like my life.

 

[Edumakated]

Agreed. I used to take my 250 GTV on I-55 and I-290. After 5 or 6 trips I said forget it. I actually like my life.

+10. After the first few highway jaunts I made on the 300, I immediately started looking for a bigger bike. Between the wind, road imperfections, and somewhat sluggish acceleration at higher speeds I just don't think they are highway capable. They may be highway legal, but definitely not highway capable at least beyond hoping quickly from one exit to the next. Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe or even smart in my book. I loved cruising on it at say 50mph on a well maintained two lane road, but beyond that the ride left much to be desired. Definitely a bike for stop & go traffic on city streets, not true highway riding.

 

[Ensignawesome]

+10. After the first few highway jaunts I made on the 300, I immediately started looking for a bigger bike. Between the wind, road imperfections, and somewhat sluggish acceleration at higher speeds I just don't think they are highway capable. They may be highway legal, but definitely not highway capable at least beyond hoping quickly from one exit to the next. Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe or even smart in my book. I loved cruising on it at say 50mph on a well maintained two lane road, but beyond that the ride left much to be desired. Definitely a bike for stop & go traffic on city streets, not true highway riding.

Throw in the tiny wheels, traffic, windtunnel action and the scent of fear ... yeah, not on board with that anymore. Last year, I decided to upgrade to a Triumph Bonnie. I hadn't ridden anything shift related since 2005/2006. I found it to be annoying. Especially in traffic. Lord knows how many time I stalled out at red lights. On the highway though, it felt wonderful. Good speed, great acceleration. That said, the switch to the 650 just feels more natural for me. What is hilarious is that I still get shit from my uncle, who is a Harley guy but I tell him, what does it matter? If I get there in one piece and enjoy the ride then why should I feel ashamed. CVT or bust.

 

[Xian Forbes]

Remind your uncle that a 96 ci Harley is putting out 66 hp to our 60 hp. Just avoid the topic of torques, the Harley has a lot more of those. If he brings up torques, divert the conversation to Seated Heats and Grips. And when in doubt I always just point at the roundel and say....it's a BMW, you know they used to make airplane engines...lol

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[Edumakated]

Remind your uncle that a 96 ci Harley is putting out 66 hp to our 60 hp. Just avoid the topic of torques, the Harley has a lot more of those. If he brings up torques, divert the conversation to Seated Heats and Grips. And when in doubt I always just point at the roundel and say....it's a BMW, you know they used to make airplane engines...lol

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Or you can just point out that scooter riders don't need to dress up like the Village People to look cool.

 

[Skutorr]

Or Nazi Pirates...

 

[exavid]

I've had a couple trips over the Siskiyou Pass GT now between Yreka, CA and Medford, OR and can tell you there was a goodly supply of wind the second time. I didn't find the scooter all that much different than my Goldwing in the wind. Both of them behave much the same. I pretty much just let the bike find her way, not hold it to a straight line, just let the machine do it's thing while I guide it, not drive it. Much less tiring. Much like flying in rough weather, let the airplane find it's way with a little help from the pilot as needed, ditto when sailing in gusty conditions. I like to fly and sail especially because the aircraft and boats are living things, you can feel the elements through the controls and the ride, a motorcycle, scooter, etc. also feed back varying pressures to the rider. It's not quite like a car or truck which are pretty much steered along regardless. The main thing to watch out for in windy conditions is to make sure you don't get tense, that makes holding a line more difficult. One trick I used to do was to let my elbows drop. If you get tense on a bike your elbows tend to be raised upward, that's a solid indication one's becoming tense and stiff in handling the machine. Let your elbow droop and notice the feeling. Try to maintain that feeling so you'll naturally tend to ride loose and not tense. On a more common type motorcycle squeezing the tank with your knees will tend to make your elbows and shoulders drop if you're tensing up. Riding loose and relaxed will make it a lot easier on the body on a lengthy trip in bad weather or high winds. Ride stiff and rigid and it'll be a hard job riding in wind, and very tiring to boot.

 

[JaimeC]

A GoldWing with its flat-6 engine and below-the-seat fuel load has a similar weight distribution to our scooters. I'm not surprised it gets buffeted around in crosswinds. The K1200LT has a low mounted engine, but carries its 6.6 gallon fuel load up high. My old Venture Royale carried the fuel below the seat but the heavy battery was mounted high above the already tall V4 engine.

 

[Dale]

I feel JamieC and exavid hit on something referencing the high and low CG. I do not like to ride in crosswinds if I can keep from it.

My Bergman 650 was a low CG and it would get knocked everywhere, the FJR 1300AE was solid as a rock on the road but get it in a parking lot look out, it was a high CG.

The GT is good at highway speeds and at slow speeds. Not quite as good as the FJR but real close and better at low speeds than the Bergman. I notice the GT is real stable when passing a tractor trailer and the bow wave that comes off about 20 feet in front. The GT does not do anything outstanding but does everything right.

If I get a rough ride at 50 MPH I try to find a road I can get up to 65 or 75 MPH put the windshield up seems to stabilize the bike and going faster you get in and out of wind gusts faster with less movement.

 

[SteveADV]

Personally, I love riding in windy conditions. Something about a good gust hitting me once awhile is exciting, I guess. Although, passing a semi in heavy cross winds coming from my right can sometimes be a little "interesting" once I pass the cab.

 

[Edumakated]

I think the hardest part of getting used to windy conditions is not panicking. The first couple of times I got hit by a gust of wind at high speeds, I did like most newbies and tensed up which only makes the drifting feeling worse as someone mentioned. Once I learned to just relax by not squeezing the blood out of the grips and keeping my arms flexing so the bike has some "give" the effect of the wind isn't nearly as bad. I had to learn to tell myself the wind isn't going to blow me off the bike and to just go with the flow/relax with some occasional leaning into the wind.

 

[SteveADV]

I agree. I am naturally a relaxed rider (sometimes too relaxed). For me, when I need a little extra trim on the sails, I make sure I look out to where I want the bike to go. The faster I am going the further out I look. It works and really allows for "feeling" the ride.