Temperature

[Dale]

Riding my GT for about 2.5 HRS, at 65F outside temp, then took a Infrared Thermometer to check some temps.
Water, into engine 158F engine out 168F.
Oil Temp, At reservoir 158F at filter 152F.
Final Drive Case, 102F.

I use Amsoil 10W-40 Motorcycle oil so the temps may be a little lower. The one thing I feel is on a hot day 100F+ you would not exceed oil temps of 200F or water temps of 180F, final drive possibly 120F. That would mean you could use miner base oil and not hurt the engine and you would not be operating within the intermediate range for the oil which would be 225F for mineral base and 300F+ for synthetic.

Looks as if the thermostat is possible 160 or 165.

Final drive, I do not understand why the chain would need replacing at 12K. Running at that low temp in oil should not be a wear problem or stretch problem so why are we paying for something we may find is almost at new specs. If the chain is replaced the sprockets also should be changed or the new chain will have the same wear as the old one in just a few miles.

Can anyone answer why other than BMW said so.

 

[davidh]

...Final drive, I do not understand why the chain would need replacing at 12K. Running at that low temp in oil should not be a wear problem or stretch problem so why are we paying for something we may find is almost at new specs. If the chain is replaced the sprockets also should be changed or the new chain will have the same wear as the old one in just a few miles.

Can anyone answer why other than BMW said so.

I agree completely and asked dealer point-blank. He said it wasn't unusual for motorcycle chains to need replacing at 12k miles to which I pointed out that those chains are exposed while ours is immersed in lubricant (and at a low temperature as you reported). He didn't really have any answer other than "BMW said so." Sure would be nice if they reported data to support it.

 

[Xian Forbes]

We could do what aircraft mechanics do. Inspect, measure, replace if out of tolerance, return to service. I bought an aircraft logbook and enter all maintenance records there. That way I can have a record of when oil changes occured, what parts have been inspected and so on. It's much better than that dumb sticker that goes in your owners manual. I'd think the chain should be replaced when it's corroded, if there are questionable links, or it's stretched beyond tolerance. If it passes inspection, I'd set another interval for inspection and see what's happening then. But, chains are not all that expensive in reality, so get a chain breaker and be sure to not wait too long. But hey, if it's still good...it's still good.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Dale]

I worked for 25+ years for two Airlines as a programs administer. What this person does is study each part and component of the aircraft and determine how it will be maintained for that airline operation. Airlines using a certain model aircraft making 5 landings per day will require different maintenance than an airline making 12 landings per day. You have something that gets inspected, measured to a standard etc. at 20,000 cycles or landings. Now you find the component is failing between 38 and 40,000 cycles. looking at the program you find a heavy inspection due at 36,000 cycles so you move that component to 36,000 cycles for inspection.

Same could be said for the chain or any other component. BMW chain due at 12K, chain is good, at 24K chain is good, at 36K chain worn and would be questionable to go to 48K so you change the chain, not rocket science.

 

[bill steele]

I agree completely and asked dealer point-blank. He said it wasn't unusual for motorcycle chains to need replacing at 12k miles to which I pointed out that those chains are exposed while ours is immersed in lubricant (and at a low temperature as you reported). He didn't really have any answer other than "BMW said so." Sure would be nice if they reported data to support it.

It seems to me that the 12000 mile service which will cost $1200.00 dollars is a payment for the 3 year warranty that we have and we are just paying for the parts ahead of time. So every 12000 mile at $1200.00 comes out to $3600.00 over 3 years or $100.00 a month, I wish all my customers gave me $100.00 a month for for possible problems that may not happen.

 

[Skutorr]

It seems to me that the 12000 mile service which will cost $1200.00 dollars is a payment for the 3 year warranty that we have and we are just paying for the parts ahead of time. So every 12000 mile at $1200.00 comes out to $3600.00 over 3 years or $100.00 a month, I wish all my customers gave me $100.00 a month for for possible problems that may not happen.

After the original 1-year warranty (U.S. ONLY...) was expiring on my new Tmax, they sent a letter asking that I buy Y.E.S. - "Yamaha Extended Service", their version of an extended warrantee. WHY? Buy insurance for a product that in this case DOESN'T BREAK? What a waste of $$$!

If you research it, the whole Extended Warrantee product is a SCAM, the most successful in the HISTORY of Motor Vehicles! Instead of having a reputation for reliability that BRINGS customers to your product, the manufacturers realized they could cut corners, build a LESS reliable product, have the consumer pay EXTRA at the time of purchase for "insurance" without the dealer having to be a licensed insurance broker, and that "insurance" will then PAY the dealer to fix any breakdown that really SHOULD'T have happened in the first place!

Absolutely Fucking Brilliant! Build a CHEAPER product and make even MORE profit!

The Consumer IS an IDIOT who DESERVES to get HOSED...

 

[exavid]

Most manufacturers want a good reputation for reliability. By recommending early replacement of parts the odds of failures are somewhat reduced. Since in these days with the internet and popular forums spreads around news about product failures, actually enhancing the fear of failures since people who have problems are much more likely to mention them than the majority who don't, it's to the manufacturer's benefit to try to over compensate to avoid bad rumors. Look at the Burgman 650 and the sporadic transmission failures. They were in a very small minority of bikes but certainly got the most attention on the Burgman forums which undboutedly scared folks off the brand. I had a 2007 Burgman 650 that I bought with 14,000 miles on it. The reports of expensive transmission failures made me nervous enough about them to buy the BMW. I would probably have gone for the BMW anyway but those minority reports on the B650 did help push me that way.

I think it's the same thing with the drive chain. I've owned a lot of motorcycles with chain drive. The ones I had the most chain trouble with were bikes I rode on the desert and in the dirt. Dirt gets into bearings and increases wear. Much less likely on the C650. At 12k or thereabouts I'll take a look at my chain, lay it out and see how much it will flex sideways which is a good indication of pin wear and pull the chain over a small radius watching how well each link straightens out as it comes over and then trying to see how much stretch the chain has by laying it straight, pushing on it to make sure it has no slack, measuring the length then pulling it until the far end starts to move and checking the length again. Those are simple checks I've done over the years on my chain driven motorcycles that served me well. So I'll just take a good look at the chain then and see if it's worth replacing which I sincerely doubt.

 

[JaimeC]

Sadly, I learned just how useless the Yamaha warranty really was. When the latch on the left side glove box on my TMAX broke in my first year of ownership, Yamaha would NOT fix it under warranty as they claimed "trim pieces were not covered by the warranty." TRIM PIECES?? This wasn't some ornamental doo-dad we were talking about... it was a FUNCTIONAL piece that kept the glove box from flapping open!!!

That was just one of the three strikes I had against Yamaha AND my servicing dealership that eventually convinced me to switch to the BMW. My old BMW dealer would've argued with the company about the nature of the broken piece if that had happened on a BMW.

Doesn't matter how nice the vehicle is... if the support you get from the dealership sucks, then its time to replace the vehicle with one whose sales and service departments have your back. YMMV, as I do recognize that some people posting here are getting the same kind of crappy service with their BMWs as I had with my TMAX.

 

[exavid]

One of the reasons I went with the BMW instead of either the Silverwing or Burgman was because they have a BMW dealership in town here that has a very good reputation. It's a fairly small place and family run. The nearest Suzuki dealer is in the next town up the road and doesn't really work on Burgman scooters, if you have a serious problem you gotta truck it someplace else. The Honda dealer here is a fairly large dealership but he sells other brands too and most of his work is done on ATVs.

 

[Skutorr]

Kind of sad what happens at dealers. the BMW dealership near me sold a BUNCH of C600s and C650s; stopped in the other day with the Tmax530 to get a comparison ride...

Instead of two Scooters inside the front door to catch everyone's' eyes like before, there are just the REST of the BMW family. Next door, the old service department is the Showroom for Moto Guzzi and Aprilia; service has moved across the parking lot.

The big scoots? Way in the back, in the corner next to the parts desk, is a beat blue C600, with drop damage all along one side. That's it.

Looks like he's going for the bigger bucks, and if you want an automatic he'll sell you a MANA. The salesman was pushing it...

 

[exavid]

Yeah it's too bad when that happens. There was a good Honda dealer here a few years ago but he sold out to the outfit that has it here now. They were not very interested in Goldwings at all either selling or servicing them.