2025 TPMS

[wspollack]

August 13, 2025: APPROVED BY MAX BMW FOR RETROFIT

I spent about an hour and a half at MAX BMW in Troy, NY, late this afternoon, reading a book, while after a bit my scooter was wheeled into the shop area and put on a lift (I peeked back there, but didn't attempt to hang out there).

The bottom line is that:

1) My '23 C 400 GT passed muster, was designated fit for a retrofit, after being hooked up to some official BMW device.

2) I am now on their shop schedule for the first week in September.

My wife and I will be OOO that week, so I got permission to drop off the bike the week before. Given our and MAX's schedules, I expect to pick up the bike on Sept. 9 (unless it's raining buckets), so look for my next report on this topic a day or two after that.

COST:

The service writer pointed out that I'd need two of the RDC sensors @ $110 each (see that parts page in posts 12 and 15, above), some miscellaneous small hardware items, and about an hour and a half of labor. I'm guessing, with tax, about $500.

(Or, put another way, about $400 more than adding a pair of high-quality FOBO external sensors --which you can't do anyway on the front wheel -- and getting the convenience of having the info displayed on the TFT.)

SCHEDULE:

The appointment of about three weeks down the road is actually sooner than I expected. The service writer had first asked me whether I wanted to wait until I needed new tires, in order to save on that labor. I told him, "---k, no. This TPMS quest of mine is like Ahab going after Moby-Dick, so let's get it on!"

SUITABILITY FOR OTHER C 400 BIKES?:

I met briefly with the tech that did this check, on my way out the door. I tried to get a clear answer, regarding if this retrofit compatibility applies to certain years, etc., but I couldn't determine that. I think he's not ready to make blanket statements, but after checking the 1s and 0s inside the bike he was certain that my particular bike met the criteria. Sorry that this isn't very useful information.

Last, here's my receipt for today's work:

 

[MeSeaHunt]

Well, glad i was able to get the ball rolling on this issue and once again prove that the first idiot you talk to at a dealer(and probably more) doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about(should make everyone feel good that they are dealing with incompetent trained techs who talk out their butt without facts)!!! Also glad I was able to help with some additional points on your credit card…. Just wish you would have been able to get more information on the 2025
This is a very pricey upgrade all in order to see numbers on the display and not have to check pressure the old fashioned way, but it can be worth it to monitor on trips! I can’t believe that those yanks up there charge TAX on a LABOR only ticket, boy do they suck the citizens dry!!!
Thanks for the update and eager to hear how it goes after you pick it up

 

[Rugerbear]

August 13, 2025: APPROVED BY MAX BMW FOR RETROFIT

I spent about an hour and a half at MAX BMW in Troy, NY, late this afternoon, reading a book, while after a bit my scooter was wheeled into the shop area and put on a lift (I peeked back there, but didn't attempt to hang out there).

The bottom line is that:

1) My '23 C 400 GT passed muster, was designated fit for a retrofit, after being hooked up to some official BMW device.

2) I am now on their shop schedule for the first week in September.

My wife and I will be OOO that week, so I got permission to drop off the bike the week before. Given our and MAX's schedules, I expect to pick up the bike on Sept. 9 (unless it's raining buckets), so look for my next report on this topic a day or two after that.

COST:

The service writer pointed out that I'd need two of the RDC sensors @ $110 each (see that parts page in posts 12 and 15, above), some miscellaneous small hardware items, and about an hour and a half of labor. I'm guessing, with tax, about $500.

(Or, put another way, about $400 more than adding a pair of high-quality FOBO external sensors --which you can't do anyway on the front wheel -- and getting the convenience of having the info displayed on the TFT.)

SCHEDULE:

The appointment of about three weeks down the road is actually sooner than I expected. The service writer had first asked me whether I wanted to wait until I needed new tires, in order to save on that labor. I told him, "---k, no. This TPMS quest of mine is like Ahab going after Moby-Dick, so let's get it on!"

SUITABILITY FOR OTHER C 400 BIKES?:

I met briefly with the tech that did this check, on my way out the door. I tried to get a clear answer, regarding if this retrofit compatibility applies to certain years, etc., but I couldn't determine that. I think he's not ready to make blanket statements, but after checking the 1s and 0s inside the bike he was certain that my particular bike met the criteria. Sorry that this isn't very useful information.

Last, here's my receipt for today's work:

View attachment 6001

Does that mean you will have a FOBO cap for sale?

 

[wspollack]

Does that mean you will have a FOBO cap for sale?

Sure. In fact, two of them, I suppose.

When I first got my first C 400 GT ('22), I bought a new pair of FOBO sensors.

(Incidentally, I have always purchased these -- first and now second generation -- DIRECTLY from FOBO in Malaysia. If you find them on, say, Amazon, well, I don't trust Amazon for anything electronic, or anything critical. Amazon resends out returned items, defective items, fake items, etc. Shipping from Malaysia is quick enough, you get the real deal, real batteries, and FOBO has sales a few times a year.)

(A second aside: there's a lot junk -- hardware and software -- out there, in the realm of external moto TPMS sensors. For instance, they have limitations, or state their resolution but not their accuracy, and so on and so forth.)

I included my most recent FOBOs with the Burgman 650 that I had just sold. I had hoped to put the second gen FOBOs on the C 400, only to discover that BMW's jackass sideways Schrader valve placement meant that you can't add a sensor to the front wheel (well, it means that to me, although @byee has done it).

So I've had one of the pair of newish FOBOs sitting on a shelf for a couple of years, and the other sensor on the back wheel of my '22 and then my '23 C 400.

(Third and final aside: a few months ago, I bought a pretty inexpensive CarPlay device for my Meteor: see https://billanddot.com/Meteor350/#S-125 . That came with a pair of external TPMS sensors that talk to the display, so I had the rubber valve stems on the Meteor replaced with metal ones, and use those sensors with the CarPlay unit, and have verified their accuracy to my satisfaction. The display is great for Google Maps, etc., but sucks for TPMS pressure readouts, except if I get my nose right next to it, for a pre-ride check: the font they use is almost microscopic.)

Where was I? Oh, yeah, if this Beemer retrofit goes as planned, I guess in a month or so I'll have no use for my pair of FOBOs.

 

[Rugerbear]

My scooter will accept the senders also. Not sure I want to pay the labor right now. But with scooter being new it may be awhile before I need new tires.

 

[wspollack]

My scooter will accept the senders also. Not sure I want to pay the labor right now. But with scooter being new it may be awhile before I need new tires.

1) Oh, I don't blame you for wanting to wait. I think most folks should save the tire-removal/mounting labor costs, i.e., wait for a tire change that already encompasses that work. Me, see "Moby-Dick," above.

2) Could you tell us a bit more, regarding how you found out that your '24 C 400 GT is definitely okay, too? Did a dealer hook up your bike to a code-reading, bit-twiddling, device, too?

And here I thought I was the first in the USA to have this -- fit for the retrofit -- definitively checked out by a BMW dealer.

 

[Rugerbear]

I guess it was hooked up to something. When I first called to make an appointment for my 600 mile service I asked about a price. He said he would get back to me. I called a week later in case he forgot. He told me they needed to see the scooter first to see if it could be done. When I got there the following week, they took the scooter and within about 15 minutes he came and said it was acceptable for the set up. If I get a wild hair and extra money, I may go ahead and get it done.

 

[MeSeaHunt]

so why can't you have the dealer just program the sensors and hand them over for the diy'er when he/she changes their own rubber??? avoiding 2hrs of labor charge that in reality on takes 30min for both....

 

[Rugerbear]

Don’t know.

 

[Reguam]

I think this has been said several ways but this if from ChatCPT.

Limitations and Fitment Considerations​

• The BMW C 400 GT comes with side-mounted Schrader valves set within the wheel “spokes,” which prevents the use of typical external TPMS sensors—like FOBO—due to clearance issues with the brake calipers BMW Scooters Forum.
• That said, BMW offers a factory-fit RDC (Reifendruck-Control, Germany for TPMS) sensor (OEM part # 36317106019). It’s explicitly listed for the C 400 GT (2021–2025) and operates at 433 MHz bmwparts.crosscountrycycle.net. This is a direct TPMS solution designed to work with the stock wheels. (edit: and integrates into the electronics)

 

[MeSeaHunt]

I think this has been said several ways but this if from ChatCPT.

Limitations and Fitment Considerations​

• The BMW C 400 GT comes with side-mounted Schrader valves set within the wheel “spokes,” which prevents the use of typical external TPMS sensors—like FOBO—due to clearance issues with the brake calipers BMW Scooters Forum.
• That said, BMW offers a factory-fit RDC (Reifendruck-Control, Germany for TPMS) sensor (OEM part # 36317106019). It’s explicitly listed for the C 400 GT (2021–2025) and operates at 433 MHz bmwparts.crosscountrycycle.net. This is a direct TPMS solution designed to work with the stock wheels. (edit: and integrates into the electronics)

my takeaway from that IS; NO PROGRAMMING REQUIRED!! install it and your done, twist n go, right???

 

[Rugerbear]

Looking at the link and part number, this fits inside the wheel.

 

[MeSeaHunt]

Just like any other, all it takes is to break the bead push that portion down and insert new stem, easy peasy… I do it on ALL my rubber, I either change them out when installing new rubber or when battery dies, it’s very easy

 

[wspollack]

Folks, let's take a breath here. Some notes:

1) ChatGPT:

ChatGPT just summarizes info it finds on the 'net. It is sometimes useful, but NOT what I'd call a critical resource.

- Note that it has apparently scanned some of the posts on this very forum, and yet we still don't have a definitive statement from, say, BMW Motorrad. So ChatGPT is uncritically basing its answer, at least in part, on our own ramblings.

- ChatGPT is the same "AI" source that lawyers have used in preparing briefs, the same program that has completely made up (the developers call it "hallucinations") legal citations in some of those briefs. Perhaps you've read news stories about this.

So let's ignore that as a source, shall we?

2) Model Years:

As I mentioned in this thread and elsewhere -- see my post #20 here, where I reference https://www.bmw-scooters.com/threads/tpms-programming.3294/#post-27798 -- it is my understanding that the earlier model years of the C 400 bikes require what Phad Motorrad calls a "control unit."

If you can spare a few minutes, please read through that other thread, for info about this. That info is from Phad, who has actually made this change. See his videos (and if need be, I can root around, and provide some of those video links). So far as I know, Phad is the only one who has added BMW's internal sensors and altered the TFT display to show what they read. If someone else has actually done this, please let us know.

So, what from I've read at Phad's site, and in my communicating with him (in Thailand) via WhatsApp, the older models (and, no, I can't define exactly what "older" means, in terms of actual years) need a "control unit," and that has to be put on the bike somewhere, and then wired up (so, I gather, it at least gets some juice from the bike).

3) Programming:

For both older and newer models, some programming, or firmware updating, or whatever you choose to call it, has to be done, so the TFT displays the readout of those RDCs (BMW-speak for its internal TPMS sensors).

On our scooters -- again, as far as I know -- you can't use the left-hand controls (the Wonder Wheel and the up/down switch) to get to a screen that shows tire pressures. That is, you can't navigate to an existing screen that would show "0" and "0" for front and rear pressures, or perhaps display "Not Installed," or a screen that is grayed out, etc.

Instead, there has to be software changes. A new screen has to be added to the firmware, or perhaps an existing but hidden screen has to activated in some way. Again, Phad has videos that show this screen -- or one that he developed, that is very much like what we will be seeing -- in some of his videos. And I have not seen such a screen in anyone else's videos.

I am also guessing that the added BMW RDC sensors have to be matched to the bike in some way. That is, I am a little familiar with this sort of thing from the car world, and I assume that this has to be done with bikes, too. That is -- and correct me if I'm wrong here, please -- even on cars, when you need a new sensor (battery died of old age), you can't just pop in a new sensor inside the rim, and expect it to work, right? Instead, there's some "matching" that has to be done, right?

So I'd count that as a little "programming," too.

4) Internal:

Yep, I think all of us who have been following this topic realize that the RDCs are internal sensors. Presumably, based on diagrams and Phad's work and the claims of a BMW Service Manager and a BMW General Manager, there are receiving areas inside our rims for those sensors. I expect to confirm this for USA models in about three weeks.

I've been running a FOBO external sensor on the rear wheel (of my '22, and now my '23) since 2022. The only person I'm aware of who is running an external sensor on the front wheel is @byee (and, as I noted, the tolerances are too small for my liking, vis-a-vis a front brake caliper).

Bottom Line For Now:

Therefore, I doubt that if anyone just buys the RDC sensors (and I imagine they can be bought for a lot less than my dealer will be charging me) and also has tire-changing equipment, that if those sensors were screwed inside the rims it would magically work.

As I assert, or imagine, or guess: A) the sensors still would have to be matched to the bike's receiving hardware (be it a separate "control unit" for older models, or whatever is built-in, for the newer models), and; B) a corresponding TFT display screen has to be added, or unlocked, or activated, that sort of thing, by some device that messes with the bike's firmware. Of course, BMW dealers have such a device, and obviously Phad has that, too, or some equivalent device.

I hope that this clarifies the situation.

Me, I'm just chilling now, and, as I mentioned, I expect to have the finished product installed and report back in about three weeks.

 

[MeSeaHunt]

Folks, let's take a breath here. Some notes:

1) ChatGPT:

ChatGPT just summarizes info it finds on the 'net. It is sometimes useful, but NOT what I'd call a critical resource.

- Note that it has apparently scanned some of the posts on this very forum, and yet we still don't have a definitive statement from, say, BMW Motorrad. So ChatGPT is uncritically basing its answer, at least in part, on our own ramblings.

- ChatGPT is the same "AI" source that lawyers have used in preparing briefs, the same program that has completely made up (the developers call it "hallucinations") legal citations in some of those briefs. Perhaps you've read news stories about this.

So let's ignore that as a source, shall we?

2) Model Years:

As I mentioned in this thread and elsewhere -- see my post #20 here, where I reference https://www.bmw-scooters.com/threads/tpms-programming.3294/#post-27798 -- it is my understanding that the earlier model years of the C 400 bikes require what Phad Motorrad calls a "control unit."

If you can spare a few minutes, please read through that other thread, for info about this. That info is from Phad, who has actually made this change. See his videos (and if need be, I can root around, and provide some of those video links). So far as I know, Phad is the only one who has added BMW's internal sensors and altered the TFT display to show what they read. If someone else has actually done this, please let us know.

So, what from I've read at Phad's site, and in my communicating with him (in Thailand) via WhatsApp, the older models (and, no, I can't define exactly what "older" means, in terms of actual years) need a "control unit," and that has to be put on the bike somewhere, and then wired up (so, I gather, it at least gets some juice from the bike).

3) Programming:

For both older and newer models, some programming, or firmware updating, or whatever you choose to call it, has to be done, so the TFT displays the readout of those RDCs (BMW-speak for its internal TPMS sensors).

On our scooters -- again, as far as I know -- you can't use the left-hand controls (the Wonder Wheel and the up/down switch) to get to a screen that shows tire pressures. That is, you can't navigate to an existing screen that would show "0" and "0" for front and rear pressures, or perhaps display "Not Installed," or a screen that is grayed out, etc.

Instead, there has to be software changes. A new screen has to be added to the firmware, or perhaps an existing but hidden screen has to activated in some way. Again, Phad has videos that show this screen -- or one that he developed, that is very much like what we will be seeing -- in some of his videos. And I have not seen such a screen in anyone else's videos.

I am also guessing that the added BMW RDC sensors have to be matched to the bike in some way. That is, I am a little familiar with this sort of thing from the car world, and I assume that this has to be done with bikes, too. That is -- and correct me if I'm wrong here, please -- even on cars, when you need a new sensor (battery died of old age), you can't just pop in a new sensor inside the rim, and expect it to work, right? Instead, there's some "matching" that has to be done, right?

So I'd count that as a little "programming," too.

4) Internal:

Yep, I think all of us who have been following this topic realize that the RDCs are internal sensors. Presumably, based on diagrams and Phad's work and the claims of a BMW Service Manager and a BMW General Manager, there are receiving areas inside our rims for those sensors. I expect to confirm this for USA models in about three weeks.

I've been running a FOBO external sensor on the rear wheel (of my '22, and now my '23) since 2022. The only person I'm aware of who is running an external sensor on the front wheel is @byee (and, as I noted, the tolerances are too small for my liking, vis-a-vis a front brake caliper).

Bottom Line For Now:

Therefore, I doubt that if anyone just buys the RDC sensors (and I imagine they can be bought for a lot less than my dealer will be charging me) and also has tire-changing equipment, that if those sensors were screwed inside the rims it would magically work.

As I assert, or imagine, or guess: A) the sensors still would have to be matched to the bike's receiving hardware (be it a separate "control unit" for older models, or whatever is built-in, for the newer models), and; B) a corresponding TFT display screen has to be added, or unlocked, or activated, that sort of thing, by some device that messes with the bike's firmware. Of course, BMW dealers have such a device, and obviously Phad has that, too, or some equivalent device.

I hope that this clarifies the situation.

Me, I'm just chilling now, and, as I mentioned, I expect to have the finished product installed and report back in about three weeks.

as for the sensor matching; when I change out my sensors on both my Porsche & Ram I do not do anything else to them, the pair automatically due to an internal sending unit the vehicles already have, which is also the case when I rotate the wheels, This is especially handy/convenient since the Porsche has different size wheels for f/b, I do not have to do anything else with the process except drive over 15mph for 5min to let the sensors reconnect to the correct position.
AND this auto detect works the same on my RV sensors, I just follow the location sequence in the truck, push the button and done...

 

[Reguam]

my takeaway from that IS; NO PROGRAMMING REQUIRED!! install it and your done, twist n go, right???

I am not so sure, but I plan to make a call to my dealer Tuesday.

 

[wspollack]

as for the sensor matching; when I change out my sensors on both my Porsche & Ram I do not do anything else to them, the pair automatically due to an internal sending unit the vehicles already have, which is also the case when I rotate the wheels, This is especially handy/convenient since the Porsche has different size wheels for f/b, I do not have to do anything else with the process except drive over 15mph for 5min to let the sensors reconnect to the correct position.
AND this auto detect works the same on my RV sensors, I just follow the location sequence in the truck, push the button and done...

Ah, thanks for the education. Our sole car is an '18 Macan S, by the way, 104,000+ miles on it currently. My wife and I pay for the dealer to do everything, and I have a set of 18" snows and 19" A/S tires.

 

[MeSeaHunt]

Ah, thanks for the education. Our sole car is an '18 Macan S, by the way, 104,000+ miles on it currently. My wife and I pay for the dealer to do everything, and I have a set of 18" snows and 19" A/S tires.

i know the macan intimately, it is the easiest car to diy work on that i have ever experienced....

 

[Reguam]

So I talked to my BMW guy (Soso for Bay Area people), and the sensors (OEM part# 36317106019) run $298. Parts quoted $228 but service knew addition parts were required which brought it to $298. Installation for both tires was $384 which includes the programing required There was some confusion where these numbers would show up on the screen, definitely in the information screen but he was unsure of the two main screens, Speed and Navigation. He thought this information could be set in the settings.

 

[MeSeaHunt]

So I talked to my BMW guy (Soso for Bay Area people), and the sensors (OEM part# 36317106019) run $298. Parts quoted $228 but service knew addition parts were required which brought it to $298. Installation for both tires was $384 which includes the programing required There was some confusion where these numbers would show up on the screen, definitely in the information screen but he was unsure of the two main screens, Speed and Navigation. He thought this information could be set in the settings.

let everyone know after the install how it all works