Christopher108
New member
Hello guys,
I register to this site because I am looking buying the bmw c400GT and I want your opinios or tips
I register to this site because I am looking buying the bmw c400GT and I want your opinios or tips
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Buy bmw c400 gt
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wspollack
Well-known member
It's a great handling bike, with a good amount of pep for a 350cc single.
Tip: follow the break-in procedures in the owner's manual, and then have some fun.
By the way, have you considered the Zontes or Voge scooters of similar displacement? They're almost the same thing*, but a lot cheaper and, I believe, available throughout much of Europe (and Asia, but not North America).
* (Those similar models may be made in the same factory in China as the C 400 GT for all I know. They have some additional features, too, and from what I've read only lack the BMW's dual brake discs up front, and perhaps have suspension system that may not be quite as good. German vlogger Scooteria -- https://www.youtube.com/@Scooteria/videos -- seems very pleased with his Zontes.)
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Christopher108
New member
I like the details of c400 gt but I am afraid about the chinese engine , if it will create problems etc . Then my next choice is yamaha 300 x max +
wspollack
Well-known member
The only engine failure of any C 400 (GT/X) that I can recall reading about, here on this forum or anywhere else, is ... mine! See this very long thread from Oct. 2023 that I posted: https://www.bmw-scooters.com/thread...brand-new-23-c-400-gt-free-part-i-of-ii.2932/
Country of origin is a very tricky thing, and I'm not sure I would give much consideration to it.
- For the now-discontinued 600/650 BMW scooters, it's my understanding that the engines for the latter production years were made by the Taiwan company Kymco (which of course also sells its own complete scooters).
- It's my understanding that the XMax 300 is mostly manufactured in Indonesia.
- As I said, I believe that at least some of the Zontes and Voge bikes are made in China. And so do some bikes with Italian marques, such as Benelli, et al.
- Many bikes also come these days from Thailand, including some Hondas.
- My other current bike is a Royal Enfield Meteor 350, and that's made in India, with most of its parts also made there.
And so on and so forth.
I guess my point is that I'm not sure it matters where the engine or final assembly of a bike is made, as long it's done "under careful adult supervision." I think that you will find even most BMWs are no longer completely or even mostly made in Germany, or Czechoslovakia, or some other area of Europe.
Good luck with your quest.
mgg
Active member
It looked like Scooteria got that Zontes up to 164 KMPH pretty steady which is 102 MPH. Did I read that correctly?
wspollack
Well-known member
I’ll take a look — which of his Zontes videos was that?
And I would also guess that that’s a speedometer reading, not a GPS. But his Zontes does have a few HP over the Beemer.
mgg
Active member
This is the thread. It was in the group that you sent. His speedomiter shows 171 at one point in the video.
But if I understood the translation correctly, he indicated that he got 164 consistently. Still that is 102 mph and 16 mph more than my C 400 gt will do with my fat ass on it.
I know I got 40 lbs on this guy, and that does make a difference, but I think it is only 3 to 5 mph? They say you can never have too much power. For me not sure that is true I never had my Indian Scout wide open. I believe it was governed at 135. Never needed it! 115 is as fast as I ever had a bike.
wspollack
Well-known member
Right, now I remember that video. Of course, there's some apples-to-oranges stuff going on there, because he has replaced the factory rollers, i.e., messed with the Zontes 350's drivetrain; even so, he says to investigate whether that's a safe change. And I don't know that we have figures from someone here who has messed with the Beemer's drivetrain, either.
Now, his numbers ... That was a wind-aided 171 kph (106 mph), and a an opposite-direction run of 164 kph (102 mph). So let's call that an average of 104 mph. And then you have to subtract an unknown amount for speedometer error. On the C 400 I got a result of about 4% overage in my test (
That's still better than the C 400, of course. I got GPS figures of 89 mph on level ground on several different trips (and 92 on my steep downhill test:
So, I'd guess the Zontes 350e, with Scooteria's roller change, would be good for somewhere very close to a real 100 mph. That's about 12% better than the C 400 ... but the Z's 37 HP is also about 9% more than the C 400's 34, too, so that sort of makes sense.
Note that Zontes has superseded his 350 with a 368, and now with 38 HP (and TPMS, etc., etc.: https://www.zontes.com/EN/Products/ModelsDetailed.aspx?Cid=636AEF73FFF63B34 ).
mgg
Active member
Thanks for the clarification. Over all I'm pretty happy with the C 400gt and still think it is the best looking Maxie Scooter that I know of. (Of course I liked my Vespas but even my 300 did not handle as well and was not nearly as comfortable as the C 400gt.
I changed rollers on the Vespa 200 I owned and what I discovered is that you can increase the top speed at the expense of low end tourqe, or you can increase low end tourqe at the expense of top speed. If the manufacturer is doing their homework they generally hit the sweet spot.
I changed rollers on the Vespa 200 I owned and what I discovered is that you can increase the top speed at the expense of low end tourqe, or you can increase low end tourqe at the expense of top speed. If the manufacturer is doing their homework they generally hit the sweet spot.
MrDigital
New member
I love my C400GT. I upgraded from a Honda PCX and have no regrets. I loved the PCX too but just couldn't do any highway travel. The BMW easily cruises at 70MPH on highways between cities around me. I haven't taken it on an Interstate yet, closest one is over 40 miles away, but I've done 85 just in some early testing after I bought it.
In regards to the speedometer issues, mine is roughly 2-3 MPH off from GPS. If speedo shows 50 I'm likely going 48 (per GPS). I haven't dug into ways to see if that can be corrected yet.
Edit: Clarifications.
In regards to the speedometer issues, mine is roughly 2-3 MPH off from GPS. If speedo shows 50 I'm likely going 48 (per GPS). I haven't dug into ways to see if that can be corrected yet.
Edit: Clarifications.
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mgg
Active member
Are you saying that when your speedometer indicates 75 you are really doing 77 or 78 GPS verified?
My speedomitor is off as well but when it indicates 75 MPH my GPS says I'm doing 72. So I am actually going slower than indicated. At lower speeds the speedo is off by less.
My speedomitor is off as well but when it indicates 75 MPH my GPS says I'm doing 72. So I am actually going slower than indicated. At lower speeds the speedo is off by less.
MrDigital
New member
No, I probably worded it wrong. If the speedometer shows 50 I'm probably doing 48 (per GPS).
mgg
Active member
That could probably be fixed if we could get a back tire with an aspect ratio just a little higher than what we have. I did this on my Indian Challenger and the speedo read perfect as far as I could tell. However I have not been able to find a scooter back tire that will work.
wspollack
Well-known member
@MrDigital , @mgg , et al.:
Per European, USA, etc., regulations, cars, trucks, and bikes are never allowed -- when stock -- to display a speed that's less than the actual speed. How much the speedometers can overstate the actual speed is based on type of vehicle, and some math percentages, and the math even includes a fudge factor on top of all that.
You can research these regs, but that's the gist of it. So, for accidents, speeding tickets, etc., no rider can say, "But the speedometer said I was only going nn mph fast." On top of that, I think moto manufacturers like to add some extra overstatement room because owners often substitute different tires, change sprocket sizes on chain bikes, and so on and so forth. As @mgg notes, a tire-size change may make the reading more accurate, if such a tire is available.
When I had my Valkyrie Interstate for seven years, I added a Sigma "bicycle computer." The stock speedo was off by a lot (I forget the amount), and it had tiny numbers, making it difficult to read, anyway.
So I added the $25 Sigma, which entailed adding some magnets to a brake disc, along with a pick-up gizmo. I also got some extra tripmeters in the process. I usually kept that adjusted (depending on tire wear) to about a 0.3% error.
When I had my Burgman 650s, I added a device called a SpeedoHealer to both of them; see https://www.healtech-electronics.com/ , and there are, or were, a couple of other companies making similar products.
Both of those scooters, as I noted earlier, had about 9% speed overstatements. I could've just done, say, a 10% reduction in my head, but both of those scooters had HUGE digital speed displays on the dash that it bothered me enough that I couldn't stand to have such a massive error staring at me.
The SpeedoHealer allowed you to set the correction factor to a few significant digits, and you intercepted the wire running from a wheel sensor to the ECU to accomplish that. Unsurprisingly -- given all the electronics involved -- the SH does not appear to be available for the C 400.
On the C 400, as I noted above, my experimentation indicates a speed overstatement of about 4% (which is difficult to pin down, because the CVT and small engine size makes it difficult to hold a steady speed):
My other current bike is another 350cc single, a Royal Enfield Meteor 350. Unlike the other bikes I've tested, the Meteor appears to use a fixed value to overstate the speed, instead of a percentage. Here's my Meteor test from 2023:
By the way, I've done similar tests on some cars in recent the years, and they typically overstate speed by 2% or 3%, at least the ones I've owned.
Also note that worn tires -- on both cars and bikes -- will result in adding a percent or so to the overstatement of speeds. You can do the math yourselves on that, by noting, say, the change from an 8/32" siping depth to a 2/32" siping depth; then subtract that 6/32" difference from the OD radius of a tire, and it will be in the vicinity of a 1% change. So even just substituting a different sized tire will not permanently fix things.
I think that's all I got.
Per European, USA, etc., regulations, cars, trucks, and bikes are never allowed -- when stock -- to display a speed that's less than the actual speed. How much the speedometers can overstate the actual speed is based on type of vehicle, and some math percentages, and the math even includes a fudge factor on top of all that.
You can research these regs, but that's the gist of it. So, for accidents, speeding tickets, etc., no rider can say, "But the speedometer said I was only going nn mph fast." On top of that, I think moto manufacturers like to add some extra overstatement room because owners often substitute different tires, change sprocket sizes on chain bikes, and so on and so forth. As @mgg notes, a tire-size change may make the reading more accurate, if such a tire is available.
When I had my Valkyrie Interstate for seven years, I added a Sigma "bicycle computer." The stock speedo was off by a lot (I forget the amount), and it had tiny numbers, making it difficult to read, anyway.
So I added the $25 Sigma, which entailed adding some magnets to a brake disc, along with a pick-up gizmo. I also got some extra tripmeters in the process. I usually kept that adjusted (depending on tire wear) to about a 0.3% error.
When I had my Burgman 650s, I added a device called a SpeedoHealer to both of them; see https://www.healtech-electronics.com/ , and there are, or were, a couple of other companies making similar products.
Both of those scooters, as I noted earlier, had about 9% speed overstatements. I could've just done, say, a 10% reduction in my head, but both of those scooters had HUGE digital speed displays on the dash that it bothered me enough that I couldn't stand to have such a massive error staring at me.
The SpeedoHealer allowed you to set the correction factor to a few significant digits, and you intercepted the wire running from a wheel sensor to the ECU to accomplish that. Unsurprisingly -- given all the electronics involved -- the SH does not appear to be available for the C 400.
On the C 400, as I noted above, my experimentation indicates a speed overstatement of about 4% (which is difficult to pin down, because the CVT and small engine size makes it difficult to hold a steady speed):
My other current bike is another 350cc single, a Royal Enfield Meteor 350. Unlike the other bikes I've tested, the Meteor appears to use a fixed value to overstate the speed, instead of a percentage. Here's my Meteor test from 2023:
By the way, I've done similar tests on some cars in recent the years, and they typically overstate speed by 2% or 3%, at least the ones I've owned.
Also note that worn tires -- on both cars and bikes -- will result in adding a percent or so to the overstatement of speeds. You can do the math yourselves on that, by noting, say, the change from an 8/32" siping depth to a 2/32" siping depth; then subtract that 6/32" difference from the OD radius of a tire, and it will be in the vicinity of a 1% change. So even just substituting a different sized tire will not permanently fix things.
I think that's all I got.
wspollack
Well-known member
Just for reference, in case you wondering about real-world interstate traveling, here's some info for you.
As I mentioned a time or two, last May/June I rode from my home (Albany, NY, area) to Asheville, NC, to visit my daughter who lives there. I've done that trip a few times over the years, mostly solo but occasionally two-up, on: an R850R BMW; a Valkyrie Interstate; a Burgman 650; a Victory Cross Country Tour; and the C 400 GT.
All of those trips were two days each way, except for a couple of times on my first Burgman 650 (2007 - 2012), when I came home in one day. That's about an 850-mile trip, but I was much younger then.
In any case, on the C 400 GT I did the trip down and back in two days each way, almost exclusively on interstates (although on the second day down I did a back-roads detour for a couple of hours, to ride the Back of the Dragon in VA).
On the third day, starting from Asheville, I did the Tail of the Dragon and the Cherohala Skyway, and a bunch of interstates to get to that area and then return to Asheville.
And then I did some actual visiting for a few days.
That's the background. Courtesy of my GoPro 11's very good 10Hz GPS chip, here are the speed graphs of each day (until I got a flat tire on the last day, about 120 miles from home):
If you have good eyes, you can see that I did a fair amount of traveling in the 80s (along with lesser speeds, of course, and rest stops).
This was really no different from my doing this trip on those other bikes, except that the C 400 GT required more constant steering corrections, as it was blown around a bit more than all those much heavier bikes.
So, yep, if you're up to it, the C 400 can deal with interstates okay, in my opinion. Of course, this may exclude the '25 C 400, what with BMW's stated top speed drop from 86 to 80mph.
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sinosoul
New member
handlebar-mountable GPS speedo can be had from aliexp for < $20 . I use these to track RC basher speeds, and also run 'em on actual bikes. They don't need hall effect sensors.
MeSeaHunt
Member
arent all the new c400's coming outta india?
wspollack
Well-known member
Not that I'm aware of.
This page, which looks to me to be an official BMW corporate page, is still up (although the page itself appears to be undated):
International Production
It states, regarding production by Loncin in China: "The BMW C 400 X and C 400 GT midsize scooters also roll off the production line here."
Have you read anything on the web (or elsewhere) regarding a switch to India? If so, I'd be interested in a link, so I can keep up with the times.
MeSeaHunt
Member
i don't have anything in print, i just thought i overheard it in the dealership?
SamKool
Member
whichever bike you decide to buy get an extended warranty for the same # of years you think you'll own it. the cost of parts and labor only goes up. nothing beats stress free ownership.