CE 04 Predicted Range vs. Odometer

[Delray]

Question for experienced CE 04 owners ....

Bought a '22 CE 04 on August 9th with 4,900 miles. It's been in South Florida since new and was used to commute to work, 11 miles each way on I-95. It was then plugged in a wall charger overnight and always charged to 100%.

BMW says the CE 04's range is 80 miles. I've seen that number on the screens of new bikes. However, my bike only shows 67 miles at 100%. Is my lower number due to normal degradation of the battery after three years?

I have a full warranty but it expires October 8th, so if something is amiss I want to state my claim before then. I'm thinking of buying an extended warranty but wondering if that is necessary. The big battery is covered for sixty months -- guess I'd mostly be insuring the electronics and screen.

Any insights appreciated! Also, if anyone wants to buy a short windscreen (I have two, including BMW OEM) or a GIVI tall screen with zero buffeting, OR a black/gray heated OEM seat with bump, never used, let me know. I'll post an ad at some point.

 

[Delray]

FYI, the CE 04 group page on Facebook always generates more replies than this forum.

I gained some interesting insights there and will share here in case anyone is looking for answers ....

• Several riders reported the bleeding obvious, that range changes with riding mode, and Eco is the most efficient
• Three riders with three-year old bikes reported simllar range to mine at 100% charging, from 54 (rides hard) to 67 miles. One who rode hard and not in Eco mode maxed out at 54 miles with a 100% charge
• An Aussie rider had the most interesting report. He left on a 65-mile trip with 100% charge showing a range of 66 miles. Yet he arrived with 10 miles left, meaning total range was 76 miles, not the 66 miles originally shown on the bike. Next time I charge to 100%, I will note the predicted range and compare to the actual miles I am traveling per the odometer.

 

[korinthias]

I’m anti-Zuck, so no FB fo me, alas…

The ‘04 seems to calculate predicted range based on past performance. I notice this on a ride where on a long downhill with regen in play, the range shown can actually begin to increase. I also suspect that from ride to ride, so-to-speak, the ‘04 computer is calculating range based not only on state of charge, but also on previous rides and whether you’ve gone easy on the throttle and travelled a varied route with plenty of regen opportunities, or just been thrashing along on fast roads with no let-up.

I don’t tend to go particularly easy on the twist-grip and have never seen predicted range much over the mid 60s. However, I am often surprised at the end of a trip to find more ‘in the tank’ than I expected. Under promise and over deliver is a good way to keep the customers happy…

 

[Delray]

Okay, did an experiment ....

I compared the bike's predicted range and miles to actual miles on the odometer.

My theory was I've been getting more actual miles than the bike was saying.

With the CE 04 charged to 100%, it showed a range of 65 miles.

As I rode, I recorded data from 100% down to 10%: Computer mileage vs odometer mileage.

The results surprised me.

The computer predicted a range of 65 miles and that's what it delivered. I rode 59 miles and when I hit 10% charge, I had 6 miles left. That's a total of 65.

But actual miles on the odometer was ten miles higher. It showed I rode 75 miles. With the same 6 miles left, that's 81 miles, which is exactly what BMW says!

No idea why the computer and odometer don't seem to be on speaking terms. But it makes me happy to get more range. Specifically around 15 more miles per "full tank."

The data:

2022 CE 04
PREDICTED RANGE VS. ODOMETER ACTUAL

Conditions: clear, 80-degrees, no highway, 35 to 45 mph speeds in Eco mode.

100% charge: range 65 miles (5,633 odometer)
Computer: 0 miles traveled
Odometer: 0 miles traveled

80% charge: range 50 miles
Computer: 15 miles traveled
Odometer: 23 miles traveled

60% charge: range 40 miles
Computer: 25 miles traveled
Odometer: 34 miles traveled

50% charge: range 33 miles
Computer: 32 miles traveled
Odometer: 44 miles traveled

40% charge: range 26 miles
Computer: 39 miles traveled
Odometer: 55 miles traveled

20% charge: range 13 miles
Computer: 52 miles traveled
Odometer: 66 miles traveled

10% charge: range 6 miles
Computer: 59 miles traveled
Odometer: 75 miles traveled (5,708 odometer)

SUMMARY

Computer: 65 mile range, 59 miles traveled + 6 available = 65 miles

Odometer: 75 miles traveled + 6 available = 81 miles

 

[korinthias]

Good to see a statistical analysis completed!

The discrepancy between the computer and the odometer is interesting and I guess a final step would be to verify the odo against some other measuring tool – maybe a GPS or mobile app to see if they correlate?

Otherwise your figures do seem to confirm that the computer is set to under promise and over-deliver, which isn’t a bad move on the part of the manufacturer.

In the future, I will be satisfied to see 67 miles range at 100% and believe it most likely equates to an actual 80 miles or so…

 

[wspollack]

Yep, I'm with @korinthias (and @Delray), i.e., good to see some testing, real numbers, etc. It's the sort of thing I've done with speedometer-checking on the C 400 GT and Meteor 350.

In terms of this distance discrepancy on the CE-04, I'm a bit surprised. For what it's worth -- which I don't think is very much, in this case -- the odometer on the C 400 GT is pretty much dead-nuts-on (depending on tire wear, which can cause about a 1% swing).

I'm in the habit of recording entire goofing-off day trips, and then mapping out where I've been. And I have Trip 2 set to automatically reset itself every day. So, when I remember to take a pic of the dash when I get home from a ride, I can compare it to the GPX info.

For instance, check out the Google Maps "Distance" calculation vs. the dash on a couple of trips from last fall:

 

[Delray]

I guess a final step would be to verify the odo against some other measuring tool – maybe a GPS or mobile app to see if they correlate?

That would be scientific. But I can't believe BMW Motorrad would produce a world-class machine with the odometer fifteen miles off.

My theory is the previous owner, who was responsible for 4,900 of the 5,708 miles on the bike, skewed the computer results with his driving habits. He rode 11 miles each way to and from work on I-95 at speeds of 70+ mph, five days a week. He was always in Dynamic mode (which I tried for a little bit; the CE 04 takes off so fast it's literally scary).

When I bought the bike, I erased all the trip data, hoping it would "start fresh" with my driving habits. But I think it just deleted the trip mileage, not the riding habits.

I ride like Nat King Cole's singing voice ... super smooth. It relaxes me. It feels organic. And safer. I once coaxed 65 mpg's out of a Toyota Prius and loved doing it. So I'm concluding I AM getting BMW's stated 81 mile range -- I just proved it -- but the bike is expecting much less, based on most of its life history. It's computing with the data that's been entered.

 

[Delray]

The mystery continues ....

A week later, I plugged into a Chargepoint station two blocks from my house.

Florida Power & Light (FPL) provides free fast-charging stations to encourage EV purchase and use (so ultimately, they sell more electricity; they're a utility, not saints).

Chargepoint provides an app that shows miles added and charging percentage up to 100%. I plug my bike in, walk home in five minutes, do whatever I do for an hour until the app shows 100%, then walk back.

Surprisingy, at 100%, the app showed a range of 77 miles. That was a first! It always showed 65 to 68 miles before, same as the bike.

I turned on the bike, eager to see 77 miles repeated on my screen. But nope, it was 68 miles, same as always. Why the discrepancy? Why did the bike stubbornly insist on the same lower range, while the app AND the odometer showed ten miles more? I have no idea.

A big part of me doesn't care. I love the CE 04. Abbreviated range aside, it's the best two-wheel ride I've ever enjoyed. I was delighted to discover its self-cancelling turn signals. Never saw that on a motorcycle! It's done electronically. If I turn slowly, like in a parking lot, and maintain that low speed, the turn signal keeps flashing. But if I turn and accelerate, like going around a corner at an intersection, the turn signal shuts off. I really enjoy that.

It's on par with the fan-cooled glove box (cooled for cell phones) that automatically locks when you turn the bike off. If I'm on and off the bike over the course of an hour or three, I can put my wallet and/or cell phone in the glove box and never have to think about where they are, or if they're secure. There are even two levels in the glove box, an upper shelf where my wallet fits, and a lower level that's spring-loaded for cell phone insertion and removal. First-rate creature comforts!

And I always get ten more miles than the bike predicts.

 

[Tron]

I was delighted to discover its self-cancelling turn signals. Never saw that on a motorcycle!

That's actually a feature that's been on BMW motorcycles for, oh, 15 years or so. My 2010 K1300S had that already, as does my current 2019 R1250GS.
But yes, very nifty.

 

[wspollack]

That's actually a feature that's been on BMW motorcycles for, oh, 15 years or so. My 2010 K1300S had that already, as does my current 2019 R1250GS.
But yes, very nifty.

The Victory Cross Country Tour that I bought in new in 2012 came with self-cancelling signals, and also my former '22 and current '23 C 400 GTs.

So I have, um, let's see, about nine or ten years of riding bikes, two brands, with self-cancelling signals ... and I would prefer that that feature could be disabled. I have more years riding with manual signals, including my other current ride, a Royal Enfield Meteor 350, and I just prefer the manual system.

The big PRO of self-cancelling signals is that you don't ride for 20 miles with the signal still on, because you forgot to turn it off. That's a definite safety hazard. So, yeah, there's that.

The big CON, in my opinion, is that they require more attention. That is, in some situations they'll cancel themselves before I actually make a turn. This depends on a lot of factors -- depending on how they're programmed, what you're doing, and how much in advance you activate them -- and doesn't happen all that often. But it happens enough that more often than I like, I find myself looking down after I activate a turn signal, to make sure that it's still on.

Thus, I find myself more distracted with the self-cancellers. My checking-on-them distraction is a safety hazard, and a second safety hazard is a turn-signal's no longer being on, when I'm about to actually make a turn.

So for me, I'd rather have the personal responsibility of manually turning off a signal afterwards, as that also comes with the certainty of knowing that they'll stay on until I do turn them off.

Yeah, I know, different strokes for different folks. Just stating my position on this, having had a fair amount of experience with both self-cancellers. Maybe I have a personal problem of often indicating too soon or something, but that's me.

 

[Tron]

The big PRO of self-cancelling signals is that you don't ride for 20 miles with the signal still on, because you forgot to turn it off. That's a definite safety hazard. So, yeah, there's that.

The big CON, in my opinion, is that they require more attention. That is, in some situations they'll cancel themselves before I actually make a turn. This depends on a lot of factors -- depending on how they're programmed, what you're doing, and how much in advance you activate them -- and doesn't happen all that often. But it happens enough that more often than I like, I find myself looking down after I activate a turn signal, to make sure that it's still on.

I hear you. What you listed as a pro is, I think, the main reason they install them. On a motorcycle it's a lot harder to notice your signal is still on than in a car. And I see enough people in cars driving around with a signal on.

On your con side, it helps to understand how they work. Don't nail me down on this, but with BMW's the time the signal stays on depends on time and distance. If you're on the interstate wanting to take an exit, it stays on longer to give you the time to approach the exit. If you're driving city speeds, it's shorter. When you are at a standstill, it will stay on until you've completed the turn.

Honestly, I do check occasionally, and have never found that it had canceled prematurely. Sure, if you hit the signal two miles before your turn at city speeds, it kind of makes sense that it doesn't stay on all those two miles.
But yes, there certainly may be situations where the automatic function doesn't work as expected, say, in complicated situations.

I just found the values, someone asked BMW about it: "Manufacturer's pre-programmed parameters are 15 sec and 310 meters, whichever comes first. It can be altered to 10 or 20 sec or 210 and 500 meters by your dealer."
(With the proper programming tools, you can even do that yourself)

 

[wspollack]

...
I just found the values, someone asked BMW about it: "Manufacturer's pre-programmed parameters are 15 sec and 310 meters, whichever comes first. It can be altered to 10 or 20 sec or 210 and 500 meters by your dealer."
(With the proper programming tools, you can even do that yourself)

Thanks for the info.

I vaguely recall some discussions on the Victory forums about this. If I remember correctly, the algorithm on Vics involved distance, time, AND speed -- very complicated.

What you're telling me makes sense, because I seem to recall being annoyed with the C 400 GT's turning off the signals too early mostly while at stop lights. I mean, doesn't 15 seconds seem a little short to you?

There are plenty of lights that last longer than that. For proof, I can cite that at some point in most of my rides, I manage to get the "OK" to light up for the oil level TFT display. I mention this because one of the conditions to get that OK -- bike at operating temp, level ground, level bike, etc. -- is for the bike to be stationary for 20 seconds.

So if I can get that message, if I'm sitting at a light to make a turn, then if the information you unearthed is correct, then, sure, at the same time the turn signal is going to cancel itself prematurely.

 

[Tron]

See above. I'll need to confirm this the next time I ride, but AFAIK the signal stays on permanently when you are stationary, such as at a traffic light.
Wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

 

[Ceesie76]

I've got auto cancel turn signals on both my C650 Sport and K1600. The C's works better than the K's but still way too 'slow', meaning it stays on far too long after each turn. So I do it manually, not to confuse or mislead other road users which would potentially be very dangerous.

 

[wspollack]

See above. I'll need to confirm this the next time I ride, but AFAIK the signal stays on permanently when you are stationary, such as at a traffic light.
Wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

D'oh! I just did some reading in the Owner's Manual -- yeah, I know, about time:





1) So I went out to the garage to the parked bike (done for the season), followed the steps on page 66, and turned off the self-cancelling feature. Now my scooter and Meteor 350 will function the same old-fashioned way, and it will be incumbent on me to cancel them.

2) Note that on page 67 it asserts that self-cancelling occurs "after the speed-dependent distance covered has been reached." So you're probably correct that they won't cancel themselves, just sitting at a stop light, i.e., when the speed is 0. (It doesn't mention elapsed time, but that may be factor on other Beemers, or it may be also be a factor here, but the manual omits that.)

I'm guessing that I've seen them off at stop lights because that's when I first glanced at the indicators, only to find them off, but that they probably went off before I actually stopped. In any case, that will no longer be an issue for me.

 

[Low On Cash]

Question for experienced CE 04 owners ....

Bought a '22 CE 04 on August 9th with 4,900 miles. It's been in South Florida since new and was used to commute to work, 11 miles each way on I-95. It was then plugged in a wall charger overnight and always charged to 100%.

BMW says the CE 04's range is 80 miles. I've seen that number on the screens of new bikes. However, my bike only shows 67 miles at 100%. Is my lower number due to normal degradation of the battery after three years?

I have a full warranty but it expires October 8th, so if something is amiss I want to state my claim before then. I'm thinking of buying an extended warranty but wondering if that is necessary. The big battery is covered for sixty months -- guess I'd mostly be insuring the electronics and screen.

Any insights appreciated! Also, if anyone wants to buy a short windscreen (I have two, including BMW OEM) or a GIVI tall screen with zero buffeting, OR a black/gray heated OEM seat with bump, never used, let me know. I'll post an ad at some point.

The mileage shown is just a "Processor Guess" based on previous charges and mileage and in no way is 100% accurate. Many factors such as your driving habits, temperature, speed, acceleration, regen, coasting, etc. all effect your mileage.

As a rule you'll get close to 75-80 if you avoid X-Ways & speed. I put on a tall windshield which increased my mileage 4-5 miles. Can't hardly believe BMW puts out an aerodynamic style electric bike with no windshield allowing the wind to hit the rider flat in the chest slowing the bike and reducing range! Hello . . . .

Ride Safe Mike

 

[Delray]

I put on a tall windshield which increased my mileage 4-5 miles.

The low screen, all four or so inches of it, is a joke. The BMW "tall" screen is not much better. My bike came with those two screens plus a Wunderlich and a GIVI installed, which was TOO high, as I had to look through plastic all the time. The Wunderlich with a small screen extender is ideal.

Good luck selling your '23. Not a bad deal with low mileage, tall screen and center stand. My white '22 came with center stand, SHAD top case and flat bench seat, which is the only way I'd buy a CE 04, as the stock "bump" hits right under my butt. I paid $6,750 with 4,900 miles.

I've been known to wheel and deal on scooters -- owned six C 650 GT's -- and I am drawn to low mileage BMW's like Odysseus was lured by the song of the Sirens (I just Googled that ;o). Not looking now, but I'll keep half an eye on yours to see if it sells. Transferring my top case and bench seat would be simple.

 

[Tron]

The low screen, all four or so inches of it, is a joke. The BMW "tall" screen is not much better.

Ideally, you want a screen that shields you up to your neck, with the helmet in the wind. That usually produces the most laminar flow, i.e. the quietest ride.
I've had to replace the screen on my GS with a lower one as the original created lots of turbulence right at the head.

 

[Low On Cash]

I like everything on mine but the vibration - can't understand how ebgine vibration can be so bad it passes thru even the seat.

Regardless she's a sweet ride!

Mike

 

[korinthias]

Engine? Not sure what you mean?