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fuel pump failure causing camshaft damage? Wth is going on w/ this scoot?
- Thread starter sinosoul
- Start date
Ceesie76
Well-known member
Seems like near-catastrophic damage to the engine, with a bent valve, bearings etc. So it would mean the timing chain/belt gave out. But then I wonder why they also quote a fuel pump (at least that is what it looks like from what I can see) which should indeed be totally unrelated.
- Thread starter
- #3
sinosoul
New member
Right? Why a new fuel pump if the camshaft failed, and why no timing chain/belt? How does a camshaft fail at less than 10K mi?
Also, I checked on alibaba, a new Loncin 350cc motor is less than $1K. You think I should to ask them to escalate this to BMW HQ?
wspollack
Well-known member
With such low mileage, yes, I think you contact BMW: [email protected] . They might at least give you a "good will" discount on the motor or labor or something. They might not, of course, but it'll just cost you some free time to ask for help.
- Thread starter
- #5
sinosoul
New member
I just want to thank you for pushing me towards this path for solution. After a few days, I heard back from Motorrad:
I just re-read the email from the stealership, and the total repair bill is closer to $1900 including the fuel pump. I'm going to opt out of the fuel pump, and see how much motorrad is willing to work w/ me on. And go from there.
wspollack
Well-known member
Good luck. I hope corporate follows through with some reasonable help.
- Thread starter
- #7
sinosoul
New member
^ thanks. They denied any form of assistance due to time out of warranty. Probably cause I'm the 3rd owner as well... Now what to do w/ this China POS...
wspollack
Well-known member
Sorry to here that corporate wimped out on you, didn't show you any love.
That's a tough call, what to do now. I don't know what I'd do, and I guess it's highly dependent on how much discretionary income you have, how old you are, how tired of dealing with some of the downsides that life throws at you, etc.
When my '22 C 400 GT was in the shop for months -- and months before I learned that it would be replaced with a '23 -- I went out and bought myself a new Meteor 350. If you're not averse to non-scooters, Royal Enfield has some nice offerings, and pretty cheap (and even cheaper for left-over stock).
My intent was to have the bike tide me over, and then sell it, but I liked it so much that I decided to keep it, and become a two-ride owner for the first time ever. So I sort of alternate during riding season.
Good luck to you, regardless.
Ceesie76
Well-known member
Maybe get a second opinion from an independent shop - dealership will always be the most expensive option. Perhaps a used engine from a crashed bike would be a good alternative to fixing this one which, if it indeed has a bent valve and zero compression, means the timing chain broke or otherwise the engine went out of time and piston hit valves etc.
Still puzzled about the fuel pump, doesn't make sense that that failed at the same time.
Still puzzled about the fuel pump, doesn't make sense that that failed at the same time.
- Thread starter
- #10
sinosoul
New member
Appreciate the comment. So, after @wspollack 's post, I was feeling pretty lost but did go to the nearby moto indy, whose fam owns multiple C650 (trynna sell me his pops for $5K lol I might just pull the trigger; gramps is 85 and retired), and he said the exact same thing: find a used motor. But I found not a single one after days of combing on facebook MP and Ebay. Since it's literally my job to ship things from Asia, I thought about just shipping in a long block. Found coupla possible
source via Alibaba:
Products list direct from CN
Main products Motorcycle Engine, Tricycle Engine and 309 more Products from Guangzhou Bawo Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
gzbawo.en.alibaba.com
Products list direct from CN
Main products Motorcycle, Tricycle and 778 more Products from Guangzhou Jinhan Trading Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
guangzhoujh.en.alibaba.com
But it looks like a similar block would still be ~$5-600 + shipping + T-rump duties of 45%, which would probably still come out to be closer to $1500. Which means I decided to pay dealer's useless $400 diagnosis fee and tow the scoot back home, just to put it up for sale sans working motor for like .. maybe $1K. The fairings + wheels etc are still completely mint. I just don't have the time/patience to part it out.
Re: the fuel pump, indy moto repair says it's a bait to rack up the initial estimate, and the engine failure most probably inolved not the pump, but possibly timing chain skipping, which probably meant the valve(s) are gone, so the $1200 parts quote would double quickly, and I'd be looking at a $3K+ repair order.
In the meantime, shortly after the bimmer went into the dealership, I picked up a near new Piaggio BV400, and immediately bought an extended warranty for another 2 years from the local Vespa dealership... Thanks for coming along for the ride everyone. It's been a learning experience though i really don't know what I learned...
Ceesie76
Well-known member
Thanks for the update. Just one more thought: since we can't trust the dealer's 'diagnosis', there is a possibility that the engine is only out of time and not actually damaged. There have been several reports of C650's having skipped timing chains, that were rescussitated simply by having been placed back into proper timing, ie no permanent damage was done. Maybe a long shot, but maybe worth having your indy shop give it a try.
- Thread starter
- #12
sinosoul
New member
I offered the indy the job of tearing down the top, and he doesn't even wanna do it lol. Just told me to sell. He's repaired my Brutale and other bikes for years, I trust him when he says it's not worth the time. also searched for any video of tearing the top down, and found this of conrod/bearing failure but in arabic:
and ... I really do not have will to power through this during the winter.
It's interesting to see other nations with this bike (Algeria, Thailand, Greece, Taiwan etc.) with far easier access to China engine parts. And the mechanics there seem to be much more willing to repair scooters in general.
It's interesting to see other nations with this bike (Algeria, Thailand, Greece, Taiwan etc.) with far easier access to China engine parts. And the mechanics there seem to be much more willing to repair scooters in general.
wspollack
Well-known member
That was fascinating -- I watched the whole 20 minutes. (YT/Google Translate does a much better job with, say, German -- I subscribe to Scooteria. At times, the translation was sort of comical.)
Way above my pay grade, but I enjoyed watching it. I can see how a typical shop wouldn't want to take the time to accumulate all the parts, and then install them all correctly. That guy seemed to me to be a top-notch tech. (I was only surprised that he didn't take off his watch first.)