2016 C650 Sport. Need suspension advice for two up riding.

H

husafreak

Member
I just picked up a C650 Sport. I wanted it for riding two up with the wife. Together it's a load, 350 pounds, plus whatever we carry under the seat. Riding around the dealership I thought the suspension was pretty good with both of us onboard. But after subsequent longer and more aggressive riding my wife says it is harsh. Plus here in California "sleeping policemen/road bumps" are everywhere now and the bike doesn't like those!
First off the stock shock has 6 preload settings, it is on #4 which is given for one up with a load in the manual. I will try #5 (recommended for two up) and #6 (stiffer) next time we ride. But I hate to give up plushness over small stuff.
Second would be to replace the spring, maybe a progressive rate spring would help increase plushness and avoid bottoming out.
Finally, I see a few threads here about replacing the shock. Pricey and maybe a bit "over the top" but it may come to that. It appears that the Sport and GT use different shocks.
 
M

Minister of Etc

Member
Hi.

I don't have direct experience, but unlike California, over here on the East Coast we go through Winter -- and that's when I spend my time indoors and go shopping for stuff like this. :)

Here are the options I found.

  1. Gears H2
  2. EMC Shocks
  3. Nitron (mentioned in the thread over in the Modifications section)
  4. Malossi

The Sport and GT models use the same part for their OE shock -- where you run into issues between the GT and the Sport is *if* the shock you select has an external reservoir/preload adjuster, and whether that's gonna be able to sneak around the bodywork that encloses the rear suspension area.

If you made me pick one of these on the spot, I'd likely go with the Malossi for a couple-few reasons. First is price, especially when you add on an external adjuster. Second is fitment, because I know it'll go in the spot it needs to. Third is support, because I'm betting that either ScooterWest in San Diego or AF1 in Texas can get Malossi to hold my hand through the process of getting it on the bike, on the road, and dialed in.

Once I get my Sport back on the road reliably (it just ate 2 variator belts in 75 miles, but it's in the shop for its 36k service today), I'm going to seriously consider pulling the trigger on one.
 
H

husafreak

Member
Bummer about your transmission woes but thank you for the shock knowledge. I’m sure all of us here hope you will go forward with your shock replacement and share the experience. I’m not in a burning hurry to change my bike unless my wife says she doesn’t want to ride it. Maybe I’ll get her a new shock for Christmas.
Do you know if the spring on the OEM shock can be changed?
Cheers!
 
M

Minister of Etc

Member
husafreak said:
Bummer about your transmission woes but thank you for the shock knowledge. I’m sure all of us here hope you will go forward with your shock replacement and share the experience. I’m not in a burning hurry to change my bike unless my wife says she doesn’t want to ride it. Maybe I’ll get her a new shock for Christmas.
Do you know if the spring on the OEM shock can be changed?
Cheers!
Click to expand...
In my explorations I didn't see any aftermarket springs or mounts to change the OE shock behavior, so while it might be possible, I bet you'd have to have something fabricated -- at which point, why not buy the Malossi?

As for my bike, I just got a call with bad news, which I'll write up in another thread.
 
M

mzflorida

Active member
husafreak said:
I just picked up a C650 Sport. I wanted it for riding two up with the wife. Together it's a load, 350 pounds, plus whatever we carry under the seat. Riding around the dealership I thought the suspension was pretty good with both of us onboard. But after subsequent longer and more aggressive riding my wife says it is harsh. Plus here in California "sleeping policemen/road bumps" are everywhere now and the bike doesn't like those!
First off the stock shock has 6 preload settings, it is on #4 which is given for one up with a load in the manual. I will try #5 (recommended for two up) and #6 (stiffer) next time we ride. But I hate to give up plushness over small stuff.
Second would be to replace the spring, maybe a progressive rate spring would help increase plushness and avoid bottoming out.
Finally, I see a few threads here about replacing the shock. Pricey and maybe a bit "over the top" but it may come to that. It appears that the Sport and GT use different shocks.
Click to expand...
Suspension is kind of a dark art, and it is easy to get upgrades "wrong.". A buddy of mine got me really interested in it and I've changed it on every bike I've owned and am going to upgrade my C400GT also. That said, even after doing my own research, I always run it past a pro. I like EPM performance out of New Jersey quite a bit. They are happy to take the time to really understand what you are trying to accomplish and give as many options as there are available to get your project "right." There are many great suspension shops, and a convo with any of them (reputable shops) could really make a difference in the outcome.
 
H

husafreak

Member
Yeah I hear you. I'd hate to spend $600 on a new Malossi shock and have it not be an improvement for instance. On my dirt bikes it was just a normal process, get the bike, get a suspension shop to tune it to your specs. Here in the states there are so few scooters I'm not sure the shops really know. This scooter being a road bike I just don't know. I'm reading about guys who have the same complaints about the stock suspension and I'm finding it to be in need of help but there is no clear concensious about what works. Most threads about suspension mods are never finished. I don't know if the mods were done or if they worked LOL. I hate to get too carried away with this, I was hoping I could just put a stiffer progressive spring on the back and be done with it. But I still don't know if that is even possible.
 
M

mzflorida

Active member
husafreak said:
Yeah I hear you. I'd hate to spend $600 on a new Malossi shock and have it not be an improvement for instance. On my dirt bikes it was just a normal process, get the bike, get a suspension shop to tune it to your specs. Here in the states there are so few scooters I'm not sure the shops really know. This scooter being a road bike I just don't know. I'm reading about guys who have the same complaints about the stock suspension and I'm finding it to be in need of help but there is no clear concensious about what works. Most threads about suspension mods are never finished. I don't know if the mods were done or if they worked LOL. I hate to get too carried away with this, I was hoping I could just put a stiffer progressive spring on the back and be done with it. But I still don't know if that is even possible.
Click to expand...
Great point on scooter suspension. That unsprung weight most scooters present is really the challenge. But it can be really well managed with the proper compression damping. I'm not sure we'll ever get to the point of Goldwing ride-like-a-Lexus comfort without throwing tons of money at it, but we can definitely create more comfortable and stable rides. I am adding Hyperpro to the rear and I am pretty sure it can be dialed in to create a substantial improvement.
 
H

husafreak

Member
I got a really short reply from them, just "we do't sell springs for your bike" LOL. They actually sell lowering springs for it but I don't want to lower the bike, weird. They show a full shock with external reservoir for the GT model so I asked about that, maybe I'll get more info this time. They don't sell anything for the front so I asked about that too. If I get another short answer I'll give them a call. Their shock is $650 and the Malossi is about $550 so I could go either way. I gotta ride more with the wife, without her. on the back I don't mind stock.
 
H

husafreak

Member
What can we do with the stock suspension? Can fork oil weights and heights be changed? Or can it at least be changed? Oil wears out. The shock looks sealed, I doubt there is anything I can do besides swap springs or the entire shock.
 
M

mzflorida

Active member
husafreak said:
What can we do with the stock suspension? Can fork oil weights and heights be changed? Or can it at least be changed? Oil wears out. The shock looks sealed, I doubt there is anything I can do besides swap springs or the entire shock.
Click to expand...
husafreak said:
I got a really short reply from them, just "we do't sell springs for your bike" LOL. They actually sell lowering springs for it but I don't want to lower the bike, weird. They show a full shock with external reservoir for the GT model so I asked about that, maybe I'll get more info this time. They don't sell anything for the front so I asked about that too. If I get another short answer I'll give them a call. Their shock is $650 and the Malossi is about $550 so I could go either way. I gotta ride more with the wife, without her. on the back I don't mind stock.
Click to expand...
Gosh. I really talked them up and, in my opinion, they let you down. Apologies for that. You can change the air gap on the front, as well as the oil weight, but that is where the dark art part of suspension comes in. Wrong viscosity, wrong air gap and your front-end crashes or bounces around. Also, too small of an air gap can increase pressure on seals to the point of failure (rare from what I've read). I've never ridden your model bike but a lot of what most of us want to accomplish on the front can be achieved with drop in valves like Cogent, Racetech Gold or YSS PD valves.

As an aside, fork oil label weights are not reliable (this is not an opinion, it is fact) and you have to consider the cSt and viscosity index. Sounds complicated but it's not. Peter Verdone, and many others, publish manufacturer cSt and viscosity index data on their sites. https://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid.
 
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H

husafreak

Member
I got a longer response when I asked about the shock they do sell. Bryan said their remote reservoir shock for the GT would fit my Sport. I'm guessing that the remote reservoir is a feature to allow fittment but he said no one in the shop has done the swap. So I know the shock would fit, but not if I can find a location to mount the reservoir. He did say it would be a "night and day" difference from the OEM shock. FWIW the Hyperpro shock is about $100 dollars more than the Malossi. Pros are Hyperpro is a suspension shop that tailors the shock to my requirements so It may be a better ride (I have no idea) but the Malossi fits and has the reservoir built in so I prefer the "drop in" nature of it. Cons are Hyperpro does not know if the reservoir would fit.
I think I will just service the front forks to BMW factory specs.
 
M

mzflorida

Active member
husafreak said:
I got a longer response when I asked about the shock they do sell. Bryan said their remote reservoir shock for the GT would fit my Sport. I'm guessing that the remote reservoir is a feature to allow fittment but he said no one in the shop has done the swap. So I know the shock would fit, but not if I can find a location to mount the reservoir. He did say it would be a "night and day" difference from the OEM shock. FWIW the Hyperpro shock is about $100 dollars more than the Malossi. Pros are Hyperpro is a suspension shop that tailors the shock to my requirements so It may be a better ride (I have no idea) but the Malossi fits and has the reservoir built in so I prefer the "drop in" nature of it. Cons are Hyperpro does not know if the reservoir would fit.
I think I will just service the front forks to BMW factory specs.
Click to expand...
It probably would be night and day, but the reservoir location may be an issue. You would need to know the length of the reservoir hose then make sure it could route to a location where you could strap it. For me, the aesthetics matter too but that may not be an issue in the end with the right mounting location. I bet you can find an owner on a Facebook forum who has installed it.
 
DrCohen

DrCohen

Active member
husafreak said:
I just picked up a C650 Sport. I wanted it for riding two up with the wife. Together it's a load, 350 pounds, plus whatever we carry under the seat. Riding around the dealership I thought the suspension was pretty good with both of us onboard. But after subsequent longer and more aggressive riding my wife says it is harsh. Plus here in California "sleeping policemen/road bumps" are everywhere now and the bike doesn't like those!
First off the stock shock has 6 preload settings, it is on #4 which is given for one up with a load in the manual. I will try #5 (recommended for two up) and #6 (stiffer) next time we ride. But I hate to give up plushness over small stuff.
Second would be to replace the spring, maybe a progressive rate spring would help increase plushness and avoid bottoming out.
Finally, I see a few threads here about replacing the shock. Pricey and maybe a bit "over the top" but it may come to that. It appears that the Sport and GT use different shocks.
Click to expand...
I rode my 2020 C650GT with the spring preload on #1 (softest) for at least 5000 miles. This year I set it to the recommended #4. It rides and handles MUCH better. A spring preload that allows the suspension to bottom often will not give a cushy ride; it will cause hard bumps. IMHO you should be using #5 or #6.
Also IMHO, the overwhelmingly important limiting factor is suspension travel, and there's no way to increase it. Progressive springs and high-end shocks will not give a noticeable improvement in ride quality, and they won't help handling unless you're racing. The best you can do is to adjust the spring preload so that you're riding with the suspension in the mid-point of its travel.
 
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H

husafreak

Member
Agreed. I had been riding with it set on 4, as it was when I got it. OK for me alone but bottoming with two up. I have it set to 6 now, much better for two up but pretty stiff for me alone. I've gotten used to it though and even got to ride it really aggressively like that when with friends. But I could feel some hits in my spine even if they don't bottom the suspension. Yeah, travel is short on scooters, doesn't help. The good news is we haven't been bottoming out since I set it to max preload (6).
 
RollaCosta

RollaCosta

Active member
#6 preset on OEM works best for me, solo rider 90Kg.
#7 is too harsh and less preload makes it bounce more, not liking.
I bought the scoot with #1 set, no wonder it was sold :)
If I understand right, the more preload set, the less stroke? Anyway, it needs to be stronger against our shitty Oz road assaults.
When (or if) the shock absorber "gone" or "dead" I'd go with Malossi

I am counting positions from 1 to 7, not from 0 to 6 as some, as there is some preload even in position 1
 
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