wspollack
Active member
Today, My Used 2022 C 400 GT Was Replaced By BMW With A Brand New 2023 C 400 GT. Free. What's In Your Warranty?
If those statements pique your curiosity, and you have some free time, here's the tale, in chronological order. Note that it starts LAST year, almost a year and a half ago.
[Note: some email and phone summaries have been omitted for brevity.]
05/23/2022: I call MAX BMW's Troy, NY, location, give my credit-card info for a deposit, and order a new C 400 GT. MAX is a large BMW motorcycle dealership, with two additional locations in CT and another one in NH.
...
06/10/2022: I take delivery of the new C 400 GT.
...
07/13/2022: Having faithfully and carefully adhered to the break-in requirements stipulated in the owner's manual, I have the initial break-in service performed at MAX.
...
09/21/2022: I enjoy this bike so much that I go to MAX and buy BMW's maximum-length extended warranty (until 06/10/2029!). That is, although the bike was not even close to being past its three-year/36,000-mile warranty, I had decided it was definitely a keeper, and as long as I had some discretionary cash, I might as well make that purchase (before I spent the money on something useful, such as wine, women, and song).
...
11/07/2022: I conclude my last day-trip of the season, parking the bike in the garage with 4,351 miles on it.
...
03/04/2023: Bike is picked up by MAX van for 6,000-mile service and new tires. This was obviously a little early for both the service and the tires, but I've developed a habit of taking care of these things in the spring, in order not to interrupt my riding season. Well, as you will see, that plan certainly went awry this year.
...
03/11/2023: Bike is dropped back off in van, back at my house.
...
04/03/2023: First ride of the season (a typical goofing-off day-trip, in this case a 192-mile loop to Hyde Park, NY).
...
[Other day-trips, a few times each week.]
...
05/11/2023: I set off on a back-road loop, with a lunch stop in Middleburgh, NY. This is the route I took (counter-clockwise):
Sometime after lunch, on the way home, I notice a distinct loss of torque and top speed. As a check, I open it up all the way, and the bike -- slowly, much slower than usual -- tops out at a speed much less than it was capable of. I check this thrice, with adequate time in between for the bike to get over any hiccups it might have: 70.0mph; (37 minutes later) 71.0mph; (and 36 minutes after that) 70.8mph.
By the way, I had not exceeded those speeds in the pre-lunch part of the ride. And also by the way, I know all of this because I have a GoPro camera running the entire time I ride bikes, and can then download the video -- with its embedded telemetry! -- once I get home. Here's the sort of information I was looking at that evening; this particular chart, for instance, shows that first 70mph reading:
~~~~~~~~
Permit me a brief aside on the top speed of the C 400 GT. As some of you may know, I've done some testing in this regard. Specifically, feel free to take a look at the three videos I posted last year in this thread -- I'll wait here:
www.bmw-scooters.com
That's right: only after break-in mileage and service were past, I verified what's stated in the owner's manual, i.e., that the bike can reach 86mph. And after the engine's had another 1,000 or more miles under its belt, it can reach 89mph on level ground.
And let me state that those tests were my only tests. That is, I ran the bike WFO only for a few seconds at a minimum, and only for a few minutes at a maximum. I had yet to take it on, say, an all-day superslab run.
On the other hand, the C 400 X and GT are certainly capable of that. If you didn't read through that thread, let me note here that a friend of mine in CA took his '22 C 400 GT for an IBA-certified SaddleSore 1000 run last year. That's a 1,000-mile jaunt in less than 24 hours, after which he wrote me: "Also I am convinced you can ride this thing W.O.T. all day long."
My points here are that: A) a C 400 is definitely capable of running in the upper 80s, and; B) I didn't abuse my bike by running it WFO a few minutes now and then.
I'm done with my aside on top speeds now.
~~~~~~~~
So when I (finally, slowly) get home, I call MAX for an appointment, telling the service department that something was wrong, and that I would not be riding the bike anywhere in its current condition.
The bike has 5,644 miles on it at this point.
I get an appointment date of 06/13/2023, i.e., more than a month down the road. I mention that the bike is under warranty, my sole powered-two-wheeler (well, not counting my snowblower), and so could they get me in sooner? Nope.
Could I get a loaner from them? Nope.
Could I rent a bike from them? Nope.
Fine.
I checked the oil, verified that the fan came on and off as the temp rose and fell (idling the bike in my garage), and checked the coolant. The coolant was a little low, but not drastically so; the oil and fan were up to snuff.
05/12/2023: I buy some official BMW coolant and distilled water, and manage, it turns out, to overflow the overflow tank. I was grasping at straws, I guess, thinking slightly low coolant might've been the problem, but all I really accomplished was to make a coolant puddle on the floor.
05/13/2023
05/14/2023
05/15/2023
05/16/2023
05/17/2023
05/18/2023
05/19/2023
05/20/2023
05/21/2023
05/22/2023
05/23/2023
05/24/2023
05/25/2023
05/26/2023
05/27/2023
05/28/2023
05/29/2023
05/30/2023
05/31/2023
06/01/2023
06/02/2023
06/03/2023
06/04/2023
06/05/2023
06/06/2023
06/07/2023
06/08/2023
06/09/2023
06/10/2023: Bike taken by MAX van to MAX shop.
06/11/2023
06/12/2023
06/13/2023
06/14/2023
06/15/2023: Called by service dept., told that bike was put on a lift and checked out.
06/16/2023
06/17/2023: Called by service dept., telling me bike is fine, test-ridden, nothing wrong. I'm thinking, "bullshit, a tech has probably never ridden one of these before, probably has no idea what a properly functioning one feels like."
Upon my politely disagreeing, I was asked to authorize further labor costs, for further investigation. I said, "certainly!"
~~~~~~~~
And now for an aside on how warranty claims are first handled, at least at MAX. If I understand a conversation or two correctly at MAX -- and I think I do -- it appears that warranty claims are first treated as if they are NOT warranty claims. That is, the assumption is ... I don't know what, the customer forgot to put gas in? -- and so any work is basically considered as just a normal service request, I guess.
If a problem is eventually determined to be a warranty issue, then, sure, all parts and labor costs are covered, for all the work, before and after that determination. But until such a determination is made, the meter is ticking, so to speak.
~~~~~~~~
06/18/2023
06/19/2023
06/20/2023
06/21/2023
06/22/2023
06/23/2023
06/24/2023
06/25/2023
06/26/2023
06/27/2023
06/28/2023: I send an email to the service dept., asking for a progress report. Email back: "Nothing to update with yet. I will keep you in the loop this week!"
06/29/2023: I send a complaint email to BMW NA.
06/30/2023
07/01/2023
07/02/2023
07/03/2023
07/04/2023
07/05/2023: I get a phone call from a rep at BMW NA. She's just verifying the info I sent, and will get back to me within five business days (which was exceeded). I tell her that I will be out of the country soon for a couple of weeks, but that calling me or leaving a message is still fine.
07/06/2023
07/07/2023
07/08/2023
07/09/2023
07/10/2023
07/11/2023: I leave for Europe, to partake of Edelweiss' Ultimate Alps Tour (https://www.edelweissbike.com/en/touren/?c=CUA). I ride a C 400 X for nine days, through hundreds of hairpins and gorgeous scenery. (Although the C 400 X is not a listed choice for this tour -- along with a Vespa 300, the C 400 X is available only for their five(?) scooter tours -- I had whined to Edelweiss over the winter, and received special one-off permission to ride it. Of the ten customer bikes -- seven two-up couples, and three of us solo riders -- I wind up in the fast half for almost all of the tour.)
07/12/2023
07/13/2023
07/14/2023
07/15/2023
07/16/2023
07/17/2023
07/18/2023
07/19/2023
07/20/2023
07/21/2023
07/22/2023: I get back from Europe. Like everyone else on the tour, I had a wonderful time; see my personal gallery -- https://billanddot.com/Ultimate-Alps-Tour/ -- for many videos and many photos, if you're interested.
[Continued in a minute. Sorry, but this forum has a 10,000-character-per-post limit.]
If those statements pique your curiosity, and you have some free time, here's the tale, in chronological order. Note that it starts LAST year, almost a year and a half ago.
[Note: some email and phone summaries have been omitted for brevity.]
05/23/2022: I call MAX BMW's Troy, NY, location, give my credit-card info for a deposit, and order a new C 400 GT. MAX is a large BMW motorcycle dealership, with two additional locations in CT and another one in NH.
...
06/10/2022: I take delivery of the new C 400 GT.
...
07/13/2022: Having faithfully and carefully adhered to the break-in requirements stipulated in the owner's manual, I have the initial break-in service performed at MAX.
...
09/21/2022: I enjoy this bike so much that I go to MAX and buy BMW's maximum-length extended warranty (until 06/10/2029!). That is, although the bike was not even close to being past its three-year/36,000-mile warranty, I had decided it was definitely a keeper, and as long as I had some discretionary cash, I might as well make that purchase (before I spent the money on something useful, such as wine, women, and song).
...
11/07/2022: I conclude my last day-trip of the season, parking the bike in the garage with 4,351 miles on it.
...
03/04/2023: Bike is picked up by MAX van for 6,000-mile service and new tires. This was obviously a little early for both the service and the tires, but I've developed a habit of taking care of these things in the spring, in order not to interrupt my riding season. Well, as you will see, that plan certainly went awry this year.
...
03/11/2023: Bike is dropped back off in van, back at my house.
...
04/03/2023: First ride of the season (a typical goofing-off day-trip, in this case a 192-mile loop to Hyde Park, NY).
...
[Other day-trips, a few times each week.]
...
05/11/2023: I set off on a back-road loop, with a lunch stop in Middleburgh, NY. This is the route I took (counter-clockwise):
Sometime after lunch, on the way home, I notice a distinct loss of torque and top speed. As a check, I open it up all the way, and the bike -- slowly, much slower than usual -- tops out at a speed much less than it was capable of. I check this thrice, with adequate time in between for the bike to get over any hiccups it might have: 70.0mph; (37 minutes later) 71.0mph; (and 36 minutes after that) 70.8mph.
By the way, I had not exceeded those speeds in the pre-lunch part of the ride. And also by the way, I know all of this because I have a GoPro camera running the entire time I ride bikes, and can then download the video -- with its embedded telemetry! -- once I get home. Here's the sort of information I was looking at that evening; this particular chart, for instance, shows that first 70mph reading:
~~~~~~~~
Permit me a brief aside on the top speed of the C 400 GT. As some of you may know, I've done some testing in this regard. Specifically, feel free to take a look at the three videos I posted last year in this thread -- I'll wait here:
C 400 GT: Top Speed in Agreement With Owner's Manual
In case anyone was wondering ... The owner's manual for my 2022 C 400 GT lists (on page 197) a top speed of 86 MPH. I recently received footage of that scoot, with post-break-in mileage on it, confirming that figure. The anonymous rider noted that the throttle was held WFO, and that the...
That's right: only after break-in mileage and service were past, I verified what's stated in the owner's manual, i.e., that the bike can reach 86mph. And after the engine's had another 1,000 or more miles under its belt, it can reach 89mph on level ground.
And let me state that those tests were my only tests. That is, I ran the bike WFO only for a few seconds at a minimum, and only for a few minutes at a maximum. I had yet to take it on, say, an all-day superslab run.
On the other hand, the C 400 X and GT are certainly capable of that. If you didn't read through that thread, let me note here that a friend of mine in CA took his '22 C 400 GT for an IBA-certified SaddleSore 1000 run last year. That's a 1,000-mile jaunt in less than 24 hours, after which he wrote me: "Also I am convinced you can ride this thing W.O.T. all day long."
My points here are that: A) a C 400 is definitely capable of running in the upper 80s, and; B) I didn't abuse my bike by running it WFO a few minutes now and then.
I'm done with my aside on top speeds now.
~~~~~~~~
So when I (finally, slowly) get home, I call MAX for an appointment, telling the service department that something was wrong, and that I would not be riding the bike anywhere in its current condition.
The bike has 5,644 miles on it at this point.
I get an appointment date of 06/13/2023, i.e., more than a month down the road. I mention that the bike is under warranty, my sole powered-two-wheeler (well, not counting my snowblower), and so could they get me in sooner? Nope.
Could I get a loaner from them? Nope.
Could I rent a bike from them? Nope.
Fine.
I checked the oil, verified that the fan came on and off as the temp rose and fell (idling the bike in my garage), and checked the coolant. The coolant was a little low, but not drastically so; the oil and fan were up to snuff.
05/12/2023: I buy some official BMW coolant and distilled water, and manage, it turns out, to overflow the overflow tank. I was grasping at straws, I guess, thinking slightly low coolant might've been the problem, but all I really accomplished was to make a coolant puddle on the floor.
05/13/2023
05/14/2023
05/15/2023
05/16/2023
05/17/2023
05/18/2023
05/19/2023
05/20/2023
05/21/2023
05/22/2023
05/23/2023
05/24/2023
05/25/2023
05/26/2023
05/27/2023
05/28/2023
05/29/2023
05/30/2023
05/31/2023
06/01/2023
06/02/2023
06/03/2023
06/04/2023
06/05/2023
06/06/2023
06/07/2023
06/08/2023
06/09/2023
06/10/2023: Bike taken by MAX van to MAX shop.
06/11/2023
06/12/2023
06/13/2023
06/14/2023
06/15/2023: Called by service dept., told that bike was put on a lift and checked out.
06/16/2023
06/17/2023: Called by service dept., telling me bike is fine, test-ridden, nothing wrong. I'm thinking, "bullshit, a tech has probably never ridden one of these before, probably has no idea what a properly functioning one feels like."
Upon my politely disagreeing, I was asked to authorize further labor costs, for further investigation. I said, "certainly!"
~~~~~~~~
And now for an aside on how warranty claims are first handled, at least at MAX. If I understand a conversation or two correctly at MAX -- and I think I do -- it appears that warranty claims are first treated as if they are NOT warranty claims. That is, the assumption is ... I don't know what, the customer forgot to put gas in? -- and so any work is basically considered as just a normal service request, I guess.
If a problem is eventually determined to be a warranty issue, then, sure, all parts and labor costs are covered, for all the work, before and after that determination. But until such a determination is made, the meter is ticking, so to speak.
~~~~~~~~
06/18/2023
06/19/2023
06/20/2023
06/21/2023
06/22/2023
06/23/2023
06/24/2023
06/25/2023
06/26/2023
06/27/2023
06/28/2023: I send an email to the service dept., asking for a progress report. Email back: "Nothing to update with yet. I will keep you in the loop this week!"
06/29/2023: I send a complaint email to BMW NA.
06/30/2023
07/01/2023
07/02/2023
07/03/2023
07/04/2023
07/05/2023: I get a phone call from a rep at BMW NA. She's just verifying the info I sent, and will get back to me within five business days (which was exceeded). I tell her that I will be out of the country soon for a couple of weeks, but that calling me or leaving a message is still fine.
07/06/2023
07/07/2023
07/08/2023
07/09/2023
07/10/2023
07/11/2023: I leave for Europe, to partake of Edelweiss' Ultimate Alps Tour (https://www.edelweissbike.com/en/touren/?c=CUA). I ride a C 400 X for nine days, through hundreds of hairpins and gorgeous scenery. (Although the C 400 X is not a listed choice for this tour -- along with a Vespa 300, the C 400 X is available only for their five(?) scooter tours -- I had whined to Edelweiss over the winter, and received special one-off permission to ride it. Of the ten customer bikes -- seven two-up couples, and three of us solo riders -- I wind up in the fast half for almost all of the tour.)
07/12/2023
07/13/2023
07/14/2023
07/15/2023
07/16/2023
07/17/2023
07/18/2023
07/19/2023
07/20/2023
07/21/2023
07/22/2023: I get back from Europe. Like everyone else on the tour, I had a wonderful time; see my personal gallery -- https://billanddot.com/Ultimate-Alps-Tour/ -- for many videos and many photos, if you're interested.
[Continued in a minute. Sorry, but this forum has a 10,000-character-per-post limit.]
Last edited:
