C400GT (2022) Adding brake, turn, running lights to rear of bike...

[clarkeagc]

So I'm new to this website/forum. Last year I purchased a used 2022 (500 miles on it) C400GT. In my 'younger' days I had a BMW R27 and a BMW R50 and had the itch to ride again. No big touring aspirations, etc., just a little jaunt around the country side and hills in Upstate SC. Looked at bigger BMW's but felt they would be too much weight wise, etc. Actually the C400 weighs 472 lbs with fuel. So guess it's still heavy. Anyway, the more I thought about it, I felt riding around on 2 wheels was not the safest situation. You see, my wife is disabled and I am her primary caregiver... and too easy to do an Arte Johnson (young folks look up Hee Haw) and then not be able to take care of her. Choices were... sell bike, big dollars for Can-Am, or make the scooter safer. I opted for the third and (don't laugh at me) made it a trike. Kit came from Tow-Pac. After some adjustments, it seems to be working pretty well. My issue is with being seen.

Went out around mid-day on a Sunday and people came up behind me (even though doing the speed limit) and passed me on double yellow lines in a 25 MPH zone. I had been going 46 in a 45 zone and slowed down. I guess they thought I was a moped or whatever. I don't think they would pull that stunt with a big Harley. So sense the need for more visibility/presence in the rear end.

I purchased some LED combo brake, turn, running lights (made for a trailer or whatever) and want to add to the fenders on the scooter, where those reflectors are located. Talked to a BMW / multi-brand motorcycle dealership (where I purchased the scooter) and the service guy said he would investigate adding the lights. He noted that might be a problem, because it might change the resistance in the circuits and cause problems. Well he never got back to me... so found your forum and figured I'd have to do it myself.

I see there are some threads where others have added lights and wondered if anyone has run into circuit problems, resistance, watts, amps, etc. I've attached a couple of pictures. The square shaped light has a license plate light under the bottom. Might be a nice light to have as a utility light.

I know... call them 'training wheels', but I'm still on a bike... and a BMW. Lol

Thanks,
Andy

 

[wspollack]

@clarkeagc :

I added front and rear LED lighting for increased conspicuity to my '22 C 400 GT without issue.

I ordered both sets of lights from a company called Skene (https://skenelights.com/). However, Skene is a long-established company, and its primary focus seems to be Beemers. Thus, it has quite a lot of experience in not interfering with CANbus systems, while I have no idea regarding the company you got your lights from, how their circuitry will react, and so forth.

I have a gallery of the mods I made to that scoot -- including pictures, discussion, and links -- and the lighting farkles start with this particular photo:

2022 & 2023 BMW C 400 GT Scooters

billanddot.com

The rear lighting descriptions should at least tell you where I tapped into the stock wiring, and which colored wires go with which function.

(The front LEDs were powered by unused stock wires that were meant to supply power to a navigation system. I doubt any lights powered by those wires would cause any CANbus issues.)

So read through those pics and captions, and see if you find any of that gallery useful.

Oh, and I seem to recall Arte's tipping over his tricycle on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, but I could be mistaken, or maybe he was on both shows.

 

[clarkeagc]

@clarkeagc :

I added front and rear LED lighting for increased conspicuity to my '22 C 400 GT without issue.

I ordered both sets of lights from a company called Skene (https://skenelights.com/). However, Skene is a long-established company, and its primary focus seems to be Beemers. Thus, it has quite a lot of experience in not interfering with CANbus systems, while I have no idea regarding the company you got your lights from, how their circuitry will react, and so forth.

I have a gallery of the mods I made to that scoot -- including pictures, discussion, and links -- and the lighting farkles start with this particular photo:

2022 & 2023 BMW C 400 GT Scooters

billanddot.com

The rear lighting descriptions should at least tell you where I tapped into the stock wiring, and which colored wires go with which function.

(The front LEDs were powered by unused stock wires that were meant to supply power to a navigation system. I doubt any lights powered by those wires would cause any CANbus issues.)

So read through those pics and captions, and see if you find any of that gallery useful.

Oh, and I seem to recall Arte's tipping over his tricycle on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, but I could be mistaken, or maybe he was on both shows.

Bill,
Thanks for the reply. Looks like very helpful information and pictures (I'm a visual person... like pics). And you know... I'm probably wrong on the Hee Haw reference now that you mention it. Probably was Laugh-in. Oops! When I mention Arte... young people just look at you like ... Huh? I do have one other question. What air pressure do you run on the C400? Personally I think the bike is a little bit 'jarring' on the front end with 34 lbs. Thanks again! Stay safe... no pavement rash!!
Andy

 

[wspollack]

Bill,
Thanks for the reply. Looks like very helpful information and pictures (I'm a visual person... like pics). And you know... I'm probably wrong on the Hee Haw reference now that you mention it. Probably was Laugh-in. Oops! When I mention Arte... young people just look at you like ... Huh? I do have one other question. What air pressure do you run on the C400? Personally I think the bike is a little bit 'jarring' on the front end with 34 lbs. Thanks again! Stay safe... no pavement rash!!
Andy

I run 33/36 (F/R) psi, which is a sort of compromise. That is, the owner's manual says (rounding) those values should be 32/35 for solo riding, and 35/38 for two-up. I mostly ride solo, but occasionally my wife joins me out back -- hence, my compromise one-size-fits-all setting (although I do crank up the shocks, from 3 to 5, for the two-up rides).

I put only 5,000+ miles on the scoot thus far, so I haven't developed my own preferred pressure values yet, the way I've done on other bikes, after some period of time and assorted tire brands per bike. So those may not be optimum. I will say this, though: the handling is superb, and very confidence inspiring, so I'm not very inclined to mess with success.

And I'll also say this: I think the suspension, front and rear, is in general merely okay, and could definitely use improvement when dealing with sharp-edged jolts (like some overgrown expansion joints, etc.) This is true of a lot of bikes for which you're not paying much for suspension components -- my Royal Enfield Meteor 350 is even worse in this respect, although an absolute back-roads joy to ride otherwise -- and I don't think changing the air pressure a few psi one way or another is going to alter that fact.

But all of that being said, your trike is a whole nuther ball game. I've never owned one, never even rented or demo'ed one, so I have no idea how all this relates to your setup. You have different wheels, tires, and suspension components, so my opinion on pressures is probably essentially irrelevant.

Good luck on your mods and riding.

 

[byee]

I typically replace the reflectors with LED equivalents. There’s a photo in my post with the LED side markers on my C400GT.

BMW C400GT Mods - Aux lights / Side Markers / Givi Box

Here are some of the mods I’ve done to my C400GT Added Rigid Ignite auxiliary lights - flood and spot pattern. Dual mode - high and low modes. Replaced the stock side marker reflector with LED side markers. Added a Givi v47 monokey box using an AltRider luggage plate.

www.bmw-scooters.com

 

[clarkeagc]

I run 33/36 (F/R) psi, which is a sort of compromise. That is, the owner's manual says (rounding) those values should be 32/35 for solo riding, and 35/38 for two-up. I mostly ride solo, but occasionally my wife joins me out back -- hence, my compromise one-size-fits-all setting (although I do crank up the shocks, from 3 to 5, for the two-up rides).

I put only 5,000+ miles on the scoot thus far, so I haven't developed my own preferred pressure values yet, the way I've done on other bikes, after some period of time and assorted tire brands per bike. So those may not be optimum. I will say this, though: the handling is superb, and very confidence inspiring, so I'm not very inclined to mess with success.

And I'll also say this: I think the suspension, front and rear, is in general merely okay, and could definitely use improvement when dealing with sharp-edged jolts (like some overgrown expansion joints, etc.) This is true of a lot of bikes for which you're not paying much for suspension components -- my Royal Enfield Meteor 350 is even worse in this respect, although an absolute back-roads joy to ride otherwise -- and I don't think changing the air pressure a few psi one way or another is going to alter that fact.

But all of that being said, your trike is a whole nuther ball game. I've never owned one, never even rented or demo'ed one, so I have no idea how all this relates to your setup. You have different wheels, tires, and suspension components, so my opinion on pressures is probably essentially irrelevant.

Good luck on your mods and riding.

Bill,
I have to work on things in 'scattered' bits of time... but I am back to looking at those rear lights. Read your info again and some other reviews, etc. I think the prudent course of action is to use the Skene lights. I don't think you mentioned it anywhere in your descriptions, but are your Skene lights the type with the decelerometers. Skene lists them as "P3 Lights with Decelerometer & Turn Signals... P3-D-TS". I should be able to extend the wires a bit to attach to the fenders on the trike wheels. Wouldn't think that small amount of conductor would change the resistance a great deal. I couldn't find any negative reviews on this version of the Skene lights. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Andy

 

[wspollack]

Bill,
I have to work on things in 'scattered' bits of time... but I am back to looking at those rear lights. Read your info again and some other reviews, etc. I think the prudent course of action is to use the Skene lights. I don't think you mentioned it anywhere in your descriptions, but are your Skene lights the type with the decelerometers. Skene lists them as "P3 Lights with Decelerometer & Turn Signals... P3-D-TS". I should be able to extend the wires a bit to attach to the fenders on the trike wheels. Wouldn't think that small amount of conductor would change the resistance a great deal. I couldn't find any negative reviews on this version of the Skene lights. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Andy

Andy,

I have some thoughts about pretty much everything, but whether they're worth anything is another matter.

Okay, you missed this in my gallery:

1) I have the P3-TS model.

2) I made a quick comment regarding my NOT having the decelerometer version. Read the caption with this particular image:

2022 & 2023 BMW C 400 GT Scooters

billanddot.com

So, in my opinion, there's no good place to put that control for that unit ... on a STOCK C 400 GT.

On your Arte-Johnson-Special, however, I guess you could find a suitable spot. And, no, I don't think lengthening wires would have any negative effect, especially if you went with, say, 18-gauge or larger wires.

So, I think it's doable on your trike. Whether that's a good idea or not, well, that's another story.

I haven't read much in the way of forum posts -- I read a lot of forums -- of people who think that decelerometers are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I HAVE read, on the other hand, of folks who found them too fiddly.

That is, some of these -- and this depends on what internal type of device is used, to monitor speed changes and suchlike -- are sensitive to merely having a bike go up or down very steep hills, with no braking or slowing involved. And when slowing (without brakes) is involved, apparently the adjustments are persnickety, and require communication with someone following, in order to set up properly.

Me, I think the whole concept is unnecessary. I realize that most bikes have more engine-compression braking than most cars, so, sure, they typically slow down more than cars when just letting off the gas. Still, I don't think the effect is that great. Plus, you can always just tap the brakes when first slowing, even if you lay off them for most of a deceleration; this is a habit that a lot of riders use, and I vaguely recall referring to it when I was an MSF RiderCoach (about two decades ago).

So, that's my take.

As far as the Skenes go, I think they're excellent. I bought a Royal Enfield (another 350cc single) about three months ago, and my winter projects include adding a similar setup to that bike. Well, at least the Photon Boosters to the front; recall, most car-vs-bike accidents are the result of cars turning left in front of you, because they didn't see you well, or realize your speed. So to my thinking, lighting up the front -- and with the while LED headlights complemented by the differently colored amber LEDs -- is a good thing. Sure, there are rear-end collisions, too, but they are less frequent and usually not as serious.

I've used a lot of brake flashers and suchlike over the years, and my opinion is that the Skenes float to the top.

If you want the best front conspicuity, my opinion is that headlight modulators are the absolute best bet. I used them, a long time ago, for awhile, but stopped, because a fair number of LEOs don't realize that they're legal on the federal level, and hence legal in all states. Also, I often don't want to attract too much attention to myself, because on rare occasions I may slightly exceed speed limits.

And those are my thoughts.

 

[mzflorida]

Andy,

I have some thoughts about pretty much everything, but whether they're worth anything is another matter.

Okay, you missed this in my gallery:

1) I have the P3-TS model.

2) I made a quick comment regarding my NOT having the decelerometer version. Read the caption with this particular image:

2022 & 2023 BMW C 400 GT Scooters

billanddot.com

So, in my opinion, there's no good place to put that control for that unit ... on a STOCK C 400 GT.

On your Arte-Johnson-Special, however, I guess you could find a suitable spot. And, no, I don't think lengthening wires would have any negative effect, especially if you went with, say, 18-gauge or larger wires.

So, I think it's doable on your trike. Whether that's a good idea or not, well, that's another story.

I haven't read much in the way of forum posts -- I read a lot of forums -- of people who think that decelerometers are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I HAVE read, on the other hand, of folks who found them too fiddly.

That is, some of these -- and this depends on what internal type of device is used, to monitor speed changes and suchlike -- are sensitive to merely having a bike go up or down very steep hills, with no braking or slowing involved. And when slowing (without brakes) is involved, apparently the adjustments are persnickety, and require communication with someone following, in order to set up properly.

Me, I think the whole concept is unnecessary. I realize that most bikes have more engine-compression braking than most cars, so, sure, they typically slow down more than cars when just letting off the gas. Still, I don't think the effect is that great. Plus, you can always just tap the brakes when first slowing, even if you lay off them for most of a deceleration; this is a habit that a lot of riders use, and I vaguely recall referring to it when I was an MSF RiderCoach (about two decades ago).

So, that's my take.

As far as the Skenes go, I think they're excellent. I bought a Royal Enfield (another 350cc single) about three months ago, and my winter projects include adding a similar setup to that bike. Well, at least the Photon Boosters to the front; recall, most car-vs-bike accidents are the result of cars turning left in front of you, because they didn't see you well, or realize your speed. So to my thinking, lighting up the front -- and with the while LED headlights complemented by the differently colored amber LEDs -- is a good thing. Sure, there are rear-end collisions, too, but they are less frequent and usually not as serious.

I've used a lot of brake flashers and suchlike over the years, and my opinion is that the Skenes float to the top.

If you want the best front conspicuity, my opinion is that headlight modulators are the absolute best bet. I used them, a long time ago, for awhile, but stopped, because a fair number of LEOs don't realize that they're legal on the federal level, and hence legal in all states. Also, I often don't want to attract too much attention to myself, because on rare occasions I may slightly exceed speed limits.

And those are my thoughts.

Skenes are excellent, and I am adding them to the front. I did want a decelerometer, and knowing you are credible, and after reading your post I went with the Admore with decelerometer. I had BMW pop it on for a hundred bucks. Works flawlessly.

 

[wspollack]

Skenes are excellent, and I am adding them to the front. I did want a decelerometer, and knowing you are credible, and after reading your post I went with the Admore with decelerometer. I had BMW pop it on for a hundred bucks. Works flawlessly.

Link to what you bought?

 

[mzflorida]

Link to what you bought?

Motorcycle Light Bar Pro | Motorcycle Safety & Lighting Solutions

AdMore Lighting helps you find industry leading safety solutions & accessories for your motorcycle. Shop for motorcycle Light Bars today!

admorelighting.com

I've had this on the rear of three Hondas (still own one) and now the BMW. It is an excellent product. I did have the Skene with decelerometer on the back of the Yamaha Xmax and the controller module failed on that unit; it happens, and I do not want that to be taken as a criticism as Skene is a fantastic product. BMW dealerships keep Admore light bars in stock.

 

[wspollack]

Motorcycle Light Bar Pro | Motorcycle Safety & Lighting Solutions

AdMore Lighting helps you find industry leading safety solutions & accessories for your motorcycle. Shop for motorcycle Light Bars today!

admorelighting.com

I've had this on the rear of three Hondas (still own one) and now the BMW. It is an excellent product. I did have the Skene with decelerometer on the back of the Yamaha Xmax and the controller module failed on that unit; it happens, and I do not want that to be taken as a criticism as Skene is a fantastic product. BMW dealerships keep Admore light bars in stock.

Ah, got it. Thanks for the link -- I'll look into it, as a possibility for my Meteor 350.

 

[mzflorida]

Ah, got it. Thanks for the link -- I'll look into it, as a possibility for my Meteor 350.

Let me know if you want daytime pics. The highest setting is practically blinding. I know you did not ask; setting up the Admore using the app via bluetooth is super slick. Brightness, flash rate, flash configuration, decelerometer, decelerometer pattern, etc. Just open, use sliders, and you're done.

 

[wspollack]

Let me know if you want daytime pics. The highest setting is practically blinding. I know you did not ask; setting up the Admore using the app via bluetooth is super slick. Brightness, flash rate, flash configuration, decelerometer, decelerometer pattern, etc. Just open, use sliders, and you're done.

That's helpful -- thanks!

What I'm also interested in is exactly where the tech(s) tapped into the wiring, to provide power for the various functions. Any idea on that?

 

[mzflorida]

That's helpful -- thanks!

What I'm also interested in is exactly where the tech(s) tapped into the wiring, to provide power for the various functions. Any idea on that?

I don't but I can open it up and take a look. I'm ordering shocks and have ordered the manual. Once those two arrive, I'll pop it open and take a few pics.

Did you get the replacement bike yet?

 

[wspollack]

I don't but I can open it up and take a look. I'm ordering shocks and have ordered the manual. Once those two arrive, I'll pop it open and take a few pics.

Did you get the replacement bike yet?

Sssh (tomorrow).

 

[mzflorida]

Sssh (tomorrow).

Awesome news and you have to be thrilled!