Interested in joining the club - questions inside

[wotte]

Hi folks -

My name is Will, and I want to become a scooter addict.

(Hi, Will!)

I thought I'd come by a meeting of scooterholics anonymous, and ask a few questions.

By way of a bit of background, my wife and I only have a single vehicle between us. This has, up until now, been a fantastic arrangement that has kept our costs down. That's going to have to change, however, sooner rather than later, as she'll be commuting for extended periods of time to a different state for a fellowship.

I've done a lot of soul searching, and I think a scooter would match my personal transportation needs (combined with judicious use of guilt tripping friends, Uber, and Zipcar for when I honestly need a car). I've been doing a ton of research over the past week, and I've been extremely intrigued by the 650 - it seems so much more versatile than your bog standard Vespa. I like that I'd be able to use it for hopping down the interstate to visit friends.

I'm a decisive man, and when I decide to do something, I go whole hog. No half measures.

I've got a few questions:

• Would buying something like the 650 be a terrible idea for someone, like me, who has vanishingly little experience with scooters/motorcycles (though I'm signed up for the next available MST class)?
• What does the TCO from a service standpoint look like?
• I live in a condo and don't have a garage, so the bike will likely be parked under the open sky most of the time. What's the long term impact? Does the bike handle being out in the rain well?
• What are the must-have accessories that I'm just going to want to buy right out of the gate? I'm currently pretty sold on the top case and the scooter lock, but I'm unsure about:
  • Impact protectors
  • Slipstream deflectors
  • Scooter coat and/or seat rain cover
  • Sport silencer

Any feedback or insight would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
/-Will

 

[JaimeC]

1) You can probably answer the first question yourself after you've completed the MSF course.
2) Hard to answer... do you plan on doing most of the service yourself, or having the dealer do it? From my experience, scooters are actually slightly HIGHER maintenance than regular motorcycles due to the CVT but from what I hear around these parts, servicing the CVT yourself is manageable if you have the inclination.
3) I'd get a good cover for it, preferably one you can lock just to keep it away from prying eyes and unnecessary exposure to the elements. Make sure the cover BREATHES, you don't want a waterproof cover that'll just trap moisture underneath and actually hasten corrosion.
4) Only "Must Have" accessories I can recommend would be an Aeroflow windshield and (if you plan on doing a lot of highway riding) some kind of throttle-lock like the Kaoko (which most people here seem to prefer) or a Throttlemeister (which I prefer).

As for the scooter coat or rain cover, I think just having a good, all-weather riding suit like the Aerostich Roadcrafter 3 would be a more practical solution.

 

[wotte]

Thanks for the quick reply, Jaime!

 

[TN_Sooner]

Hello Will. I too am Will and just a few miles south of Nashvegas.

Jamie did a good job answering your questions. I would echo the need for a Aeroflow windscreen. In my opinion, most of the stuff you mentioned are simply personal preference items.

I would suggest a less expensive entry bike to be sure this "party" is for you. Ride it for a year and then upgrade. But, this is a very personal decision, so do what you feel!

Our local BMW dealer is a mixed bag, in my opinion. I really like the service manager, but don't care for the attitude in the sales dept. also, I bought my BMW used from them over a year ago and don't believe that they've stocked in another scooter since then - I could be wrong - I haven't been in lately or checked their web site.

I am aware of a used 650 that has been on Cycletrader.com in Pegram (just west of bellevue). I'm pretty sure I "know" this bike - if you are considering it, send me a private message and I'll tell you more. Nothing bad, just info you might want.

Sounds like you contemplate riding year round - remember that they only plow the main roads and the side streets can stay icy for a couple of weeks, when we have that rare ice storm.

 

[wotte]

Hello Will. I too am Will and just a few miles south of Nashvegas.

Jamie did a good job answering your questions. I would echo the need for a Aeroflow windscreen. In my opinion, most of the stuff you mentioned are simply personal preference items.

I would suggest a less expensive entry bike to be sure this "party" is for you. Ride it for a year and then upgrade. But, this is a very personal decision, so do what you feel!

I've contemplated that; other bikes in the power envelope I'm looking for aren't dramatically less expensive, and as I said - I'm a no half measures kind of guy. If I'm going to give this the old college try, I want to have the best tools available.

I also have a feeling this will stick and my wife will wind up getting a scoot once she finishes her fellowship next year.

Our local BMW dealer is a mixed bag, in my opinion. I really like the service manager, but don't care for the attitude in the sales dept. also, I bought my BMW used from them over a year ago and don't believe that they've stocked in another scooter since then - I could be wrong - I haven't been in lately or checked their web site.

I am aware of a used 650 that has been on Cycletrader.com in Pegram (just west of bellevue). I'm pretty sure I "know" this bike - if you are considering it, send me a private message and I'll tell you more. Nothing bad, just info you might want.

Thanks for the heads up.

Sounds like you contemplate riding year round - remember that they only plow the main roads and the side streets can stay icy for a couple of weeks, when we have that rare ice storm.

Hah. Even in a car with the best winter tires money can buy I tend to avoid the roads around here like the plague after an ice storm. Even then, I rarely have call to hit side streets unless I'm taking a shortcut - my commute is a straight shot down 21st to music row. When weather is terrible I plan to fall back on Uber/MTA.

 

[SteveADV]

Hey Will,

The CGT is one of the really good choices for mid-size bikes, let alone being a great scooter. But I would not rule out at least considering other smaller scooters if this is new to you. You can always trade up if it really grabs you.

Here's a great web site put together by a guy with a Vespa that lives up in State College, Pa. He rides year round (including on snowy roads) and is a top notch photographer....Watch out, you might end up with a Vespa after reading some of his posts.

http://scooterinthesticks.com

Steve

 

[TwoPort]

My wife has a car. I have the BMW GT scoot. I don't need or want a car.

 

[grey.hound]

Welcome Will,
my thoughts are this: get something small and lightweight to start with. You are likely to make some mistakes subconsciously that are easier to correct with a smaller and lighter bike. It's the little things you don't or can't think of that I'm talking about. I just started riding almost 3 years ago and am glad I started on my Aprilia 250 scooter. It weighs 320 lbs and at the time was just perfect. Now, after riding the C600 sport that weighs 550lbs, the Aprilia seems really light. The thing is, the 250cc is plenty powerful for all but the fastest, busiest interstate types of roads. Even then, people take them on interstates, but I wouldn't. Learn the skills and enjoy riding, then move up.

Personally, If you wanted new, I'd go for the Vespa 300 with ABS, it will do more than you think and resale, if you decide is going to be great.

Good luck,
GH

 

[Sparkrn]

If your a coordinated person you will be fine on the BMW

 

[James Busuttil]

Within one year I traded up from a 300 to a 400 kymco and then to the GT. It worked well for me as I made most of my rookie errors on smaller, cheaper scooters. Stuff like leaning over too far to have something handed to me whilst straddling the bike. Or stopping half on, half off my garage ramp exactly where my feet could not touch the ground. Or simply falling over whilst stopped at a cross road, I swear it was the devil himself that pushed the bike over ( no other reason I can come up with)

Probably I should still be on a smaller bike given I only have 10k km worth of experience but I promised myself a nice bike for my 50th and so the GT is here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SteveADV]

Good advice and funny stuff, James.

 

[wotte]

Hey Will,

The CGT is one of the really good choices for mid-size bikes, let alone being a great scooter. But I would not rule out at least considering other smaller scooters if this is new to you. You can always trade up if it really grabs you.

Here's a great web site put together by a guy with a Vespa that lives up in State College, Pa. He rides year round (including on snowy roads) and is a top notch photographer....Watch out, you might end up with a Vespa after reading some of his posts.

http://scooterinthesticks.com

Steve

It certainly does make me want to move to PA

Welcome Will,
my thoughts are this: get something small and lightweight to start with. You are likely to make some mistakes subconsciously that are easier to correct with a smaller and lighter bike. It's the little things you don't or can't think of that I'm talking about. I just started riding almost 3 years ago and am glad I started on my Aprilia 250 scooter. It weighs 320 lbs and at the time was just perfect. Now, after riding the C600 sport that weighs 550lbs, the Aprilia seems really light. The thing is, the 250cc is plenty powerful for all but the fastest, busiest interstate types of roads. Even then, people take them on interstates, but I wouldn't. Learn the skills and enjoy riding, then move up.

Personally, If you wanted new, I'd go for the Vespa 300 with ABS, it will do more than you think and resale, if you decide is going to be great.

Good luck,
GH

Thanks very much for the contrary advice; that's sometimes hard to come by on the interwebs. Both of you make fair points.

The 300 GTS is certainly on my radar. The styling does appeal to me, and lighter weight vehicles have some advantages over the heavier 650, notwithstanding potential advantages in the learning curve.

I'm going to reflect on it over the weekend, talk to my wife, and chat with some friends who have Vespas, and see how I feel after a couple days of BRC I'm probably pulling the trigger either way next week

 

[wotte]

This forum really irritates me (not y'all, you're wonderful. the software). I can't type a post without getting logged out when I try to hit 'post'.

I have a longer and more thought out post prepared, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether.

Hound, Steve, and James: Thanks very much for the insight.

The 300 GTS is certainly on my radar; the lighter scoots have advantages aside from being a bit more forgiving. It is an extremely strong contender in my mind. I had the good fortune to run into a 650 owner when I swung by my local dealership to pick up some boots today and had a chance to straddle both. The 300 did feel lighter, but also felt like a clown car in comparison to the 650 when it came to how well it fit my frame

I'm still considering - and I'll certainly factor your sage wisdom into my decision. I'm going to sleep on it this weekend, talk with the wife, chat with a co-worker who's into motorcycles, and probably pull the trigger one way or the other next week once I've got all my ducks in a row.

 

[SteveADV]

This forum really irritates me (not y'all, you're wonderful. the software). I can't type a post without getting logged out when I try to hit 'post'.

I have a longer and more thought out post prepared, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether.....

I hear yah. Kinda like when you say some really thought provoking deep stuff on your cell only to find your connection was lost minutes ago...grrrrrrrr. My suggestion would be to copy copy and then edit later if need be.

As regards your choice of bike, whatever you choose, this is a good place to gather wisdom from a large number of great folks re: maxi-scooters and really any kind of PTW. I was totally new to scooters a couple years ago and was surprised to find that scooter owners (of all sizes) are actually pretty dang cool people to hang with. Plus, a few of them (NOT ME) actually know a thing or two about the care and repair of theses things.

 

[Edumakated]

This forum really irritates me (not y'all, you're wonderful. the software). I can't type a post without getting logged out when I try to hit 'post'.

I have a longer and more thought out post prepared, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether.

Hound, Steve, and James: Thanks very much for the insight.

The 300 GTS is certainly on my radar; the lighter scoots have advantages aside from being a bit more forgiving. It is an extremely strong contender in my mind. I had the good fortune to run into a 650 owner when I swung by my local dealership to pick up some boots today and had a chance to straddle both. The 300 did feel lighter, but also felt like a clown car in comparison to the 650 when it came to how well it fit my frame

I'm still considering - and I'll certainly factor your sage wisdom into my decision. I'm going to sleep on it this weekend, talk with the wife, chat with a co-worker who's into motorcycles, and probably pull the trigger one way or the other next week once I've got all my ducks in a row.

I owned a Vespa 300 before buying my C600. The 300 was great around town. Had enough grunt for most urban traffic and a lot easier to maneuver in tight spaces. I literally just sold the 300 over the weekend.

My biggest issue with the 300 is that I didn't feel it had enough power for longer high speed riding and it is a bit cramped. It will run at 75-80mph topped out, but handles like a skateboard at those speeds. The suspension also isn't up to the task, so any road imperfection will cause immediate clinched butt cheeks. The scoot was fine on roads where cars generally top out at 50-55mph, but after that you are going to be starved for power.

I'm glad I started out on the 300 as I might have gotten into trouble on the c600. The 300 is a little more forgiving of new rider mistakes because of the lighter weight and more manageable power.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably go straight to the 650GT (or a C600 if you can find one). It will do everything the Vespa will do, but more. I can easily get on my c600 on ride to grocery store as much as I could my Vespa.

the only advice I have it don't let the scooter terminology fool you. It is a straight up mid-sized touring MOTORCYCLE. It has enough power to write a check your azz can't cash. It isn't really a beginner bike by any means. I just got back from a 1000 mile round trip ride this weekend with a bunch of Harleys. Let's just say a few got embarrassed...

 

[Lance]

We also have a GTS300 Vespa and it is a great scooter for city but useless on the highway imo, way too skittish for higher speeds and rough road. Having said that the BMW is a heavy bike to push around the garage but is more like a motorcycle once you are mobile.

 

[exavid]

I don't think my GT is heavy but then I've owned Goldwings for the previous 15 years.
I like my 650GT best of the three maxi's I've owned, a Silverwing 600, Burgman 650 and now the C650GT. That said for a great entry level maxi that's plenty powerful for freeways and a great bulletproof bike the Honda Silverwing is a great bang for the buck. They can be found for sale in good condition in the $3000-4000 range. The main reason I sold mine for the GT was I needed the extra payload for the wife and I to ride together. Our combined weight was a bit over the max for the SW but within range for the GT. The Silverwing is a twin cylinder 600cc bike, some have ABS, tops out at 106mph (mine did measured with a GPS) and has under seat storage comparable to the GT. Honda quit importing them in 2014 but parts are going to be available for many years.
It depends on what you want to do, the BMW 650Gt is arguably the top-of-the-line for a maxi scooter not because it's a BMW but because it's great handling, powerful and very well equipped with features. It is also near the top of the line in price though used ones can be found in the under 8k range.
Whatever you decide they are just plain fun. If it's low cost transport and purchase price you want the best bet would be a 6-8 year old Toyota Corrola but scooters are more fun.

 

[TwoPort]

Good advice and funny stuff, James.

Ha - I'm glad you caught it since it was intended with some humor. I've clocked 17,500 miles in 11 months so it is also practical.

As a side note, every time I start thinking a different BMW bike might be awesome as a 2nd bike - the deal killer is shifting! Shifting is for chumps - I'm waiting for the BMW adventure bike with CVT.

 

[JaimeC]

Hey now! I still like my "shifty" K1200LT. It may not be as much fun in congested, bumper-to-bumper traffic but under "normal" circumstances it's just fine. As I also discovered on the Ramapo 500 this past weekend, having a manual clutch makes it a LOT easier to pass long lines of slow moving traffic when you don't have much room. My two riding buddies would often pass a string of two or three "sight see-ers" in the blink of an eye where I'd have to plan a decent line of sight and give myself a lot more room to do so.

And before SkuTorr chimes in... I know I could probably get a little more of an edge with Dr. Pulley sliders and a HIT clutch... but I doubt I'd be able to match the acceleration of a standard bike that could manually spin up to redline while downshifting one or two gears and dumping the clutch...

 

[TwoPort]

Hey now! I still like my "shifty" K1200LT. It may not be as much fun in congested, bumper-to-bumper traffic but under "normal" circumstances it's just fine. As I also discovered on the Ramapo 500 this past weekend, having a manual clutch makes it a LOT easier to pass long lines of slow moving traffic when you don't have much room. My two riding buddies would often pass a string of two or three "sight see-ers" in the blink of an eye where I'd have to plan a decent line of sight and give myself a lot more room to do so.

And before SkuTorr chimes in... I know I could probably get a little more of an edge with Dr. Pulley sliders and a HIT clutch... but I doubt I'd be able to match the acceleration of a standard bike that could manually spin up to redline while downshifting one or two gears and dumping the clutch...

No disagreement here. Full power at any speed is a manual transmission's strong suit. In reading some riding comparisons of the BMW Scooter vs. similar sized but manual cluched bikes it seemed the only substantial difference was just what you mentioned: the manual clutch bikes would win a drag race and pull away quicker at about any speed (when in the right gear). I have been waiting for the article that touts the advantages of never shifting or thinking about it. Perhaps I'm making more out of it than I should. (Okay - I am and I'll admit it.)

But it makes me wonder what the BMW S 1000 XR with a 160hp might perform like with a CVT. Or even better with Dr. Pulley sliders and a HIT clutch. I'm gonna guess it might do the passing trick just fine but still a step behind its brother with a manual clutch.