Oil Warning Light

[Skutorr]

Have your mechanic (or YOU) remove the oil galley plug and screw-in his (your) QUALITY oil pressure gauge...and then READ and NOTATE the pressure HOT at idle and at running speed, say 3000rpm. Compare the PSI numbers you get to BMWs figures for the bike. It might NOT be the sensors; if the oil pump is a twin gear design, rather than a georotor, it's not very efficient at lower rpms. If the recommended working range is, let's say, 10-75 psi, the warning sensor is calibrated to go on BELOW 10 psi, maybe 5?

Problem is, it might be around ZERO when hot. No way to know without an accurate dial gauge. Remember, they have had lots of problems with the timing chain tensioners, which are oil pressurized. Could be that the volume of flow necessary to keep the galleys all pressurized cannot be supplied by the pump at hot idle. Therefore, as you give it power and accelerate from idle, you have almost NO oil pressure at the engine bearings. This could be a BAD THING.

Oil pump side and end clearances should be very close for max efficiency at idle. When building engines I take apart BRAND NEW oil pumps and blueprint them down to the minimum clearances quoted by the engine manufacturer. Sometimes the NEW pump is more than 20% OVER the maximum allowable clearances for a WORN pump.

It's very possible this might be a QC problem from the pump subcontractor. You should check with BMW and see if there have been any TSBs on any of their Far Eastern Sourced engines, not just the C600/650.

Again, you MUST have them get real data with a GUAGE!!!

 

[qualt]

Have your mechanic (or YOU) remove the oil galley plug and screw-in his (your) QUALITY oil pressure gauge...and then READ and NOTATE the pressure HOT at idle and at running speed, say 3000rpm. Compare the PSI numbers you get to BMWs figures for the bike. It might NOT be the sensors; if the oil pump is a twin gear design, rather than a georotor, it's not very efficient at lower rpms. If the recommended working range is, let's say, 10-75 psi, the warning sensor is calibrated to go on BELOW 10 psi, maybe 5?

Problem is, it might be around ZERO when hot. No way to know without an accurate dial gauge. Remember, they have had lots of problems with the timing chain tensioners, which are oil pressurized. Could be that the volume of flow necessary to keep the galleys all pressurized cannot be supplied by the pump at hot idle. Therefore, as you give it power and accelerate from idle, you have almost NO oil pressure at the engine bearings. This could be a BAD THING.

Oil pump side and end clearances should be very close for max efficiency at idle. When building engines I take apart BRAND NEW oil pumps and blueprint them down to the minimum clearances quoted by the engine manufacturer. Sometimes the NEW pump is more than 20% OVER the maximum allowable clearances for a WORN pump.

It's very possible this might be a QC problem from the pump subcontractor. You should check with BMW and see if there have been any TSBs on any of their Far Eastern Sourced engines, not just the C600/650.

Again, you MUST have them get real data with a GUAGE!!!

I don't disagree that checking the oil pressure with a separate gauge is advisable, and if this were a 4 year old bike then that would be good advice, but this is a new bike with a 3 year warranty so there is no way I am going to put a wrench to it. BMW can do what you suggested but not me.

Two reasons; one is that it should be corrected by BMW, not the customer, and the other is if I put a wrench on it they might use that as an excuse to void the warranty.

So to be fair I will contact BMW soon (they are closed on Monday) and see what they say before I make too big of an issue over it.

Moreover, this isn't the first engine I have owned with low idle oil pressure when hot. I had a turbocharged Subaru buggy motor that had virtually no oil pressure at idle when hot, and it run for years without any problems. I tried almost everything to correct it, I installed the largest oil pump available, I tried 50 wt oil (even with STP), I added remote oil coolers and nothing helped. An internet check showed that many others had the same low oil pressure so I finally gave up and said if I need to take it apart I will do it when it blows up.... It never did and I never even found any metal flakes in the oil filter when I checked.

So I will have to see if my scooter has a problem, or if these BMW scooters are more of these low idle hot oil pressure motors.

I will keep us informed.

 

[bill steele]

If you look through this forum I think you will find that that Castrol oil is not very good oil a cheap fix would be try using a better grade of oil an new filter and take a long ride and see what happens, if you blow the engine you will be waiting a long time for the repair or replacement and with riding season coming up (at least here in the Northeast) you mite be waiting months. The castrol oil breaks down very quick and if you ride in a warm/hot area it will break down even quicker. Remember the Castrol oil is made from the same castor beans that they make castor oil that Spankey and Alfalfa had to take in the Our gang series.

 

[qualt]

If you look through this forum I think you will find that that Castrol oil is not very good oil a cheap fix would be try using a better grade of oil an new filter and take a long ride and see what happens, if you blow the engine you will be waiting a long time for the repair or replacement and with riding season coming up (at least here in the Northeast) you mite be waiting months. The castrol oil breaks down very quick and if you ride in a warm/hot area it will break down even quicker. Remember the Castrol oil is made from the same castor beans that they make castor oil that Spankey and Alfalfa had to take in the Our gang series.

Thanks Bill.

I have never used Castrol but their conventional 4 stroke oil is petroleum based not castor based (but maybe their two stroke oil still is). As far as I know Blendzall is the only oil company who still uses castor seed oil for their base stock.

There use to be a very good impartial source for information on the various brands of lubricating oil, and it was called "The Motor Oil Bible." They still may be around if you do an internet search. In most cases they told you way more than you needed to know. (I found the link after I wrote this. Here it is: http://motoroilbible.com/)

I my case I doubt if the oil itself was the problem since it only had 180 miles on it. I also can't conceive that Castrol has broken down in that short of time.

I know some people rave about Mobil-1 (not sure why) but that is the only oil I ever used that I am sure destroyed my engine. It was 25 to 30 years ago and at that time they were promoting 5w-30 (it may have even been 5w-20)for all automotive applications. I'm sure that was the problem since I drained straight 30w out and put their 5w-30 in a truck I used for towing. I lost the engine in less than 200 miles of towing.

I sued them in small claims court and won but they then appealed it to Superior Court, brought in 8 lawyers (I was representing myself) and the judge threw out the case before I even presented all my evidence. My lawsuit was for just the cost to replace the engine ($2000 dollars) and they probably spent 100K to make sure I didn't prevail. Needless to say I don't use Mobil 1 oil in anything I own.

 

[tfrantz123]

Had the same problem with my 600C. At approx 100 miles the check oil light came on. Took it to Bob's BMW and the tech added some oil and the problem has not happened again.


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[qualt]

Had the same problem with my 600C. At approx 100 miles the check oil light came on. Took it to Bob's BMW and the tech added some oil and the problem has not happened again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My oil level is 1/2 way between the full and add so maybe that is the problem. I will try bringing it up to the full mark and see if it still occurs. Thanks.

 

[JaimeC]

My oil level is 1/2 way between the full and add ...

That's actually PERFECT...

 

[qualt]

My oil level is 1/2 way between the full and add so maybe that is the problem. I will try bringing it up to the full mark and see if it still occurs. Thanks.

Like tfrantz123, I brought the oil level up to the full mark when hot and so far the light hasn't come on again. I took it on a medium-short ride (26 mi) in 90 deg weather, and made several stops to let it idle, and the warning light never came on. I am aware that this was only one test so it may still occur in the future but for now it appears that it might be corrected by just keeping the oil at the full mark.

As a point of interest, my BMW dealer said they weren't aware of this problem, but then again they may not have sold many scooters, or it may have only been this particular service writer.

-----------------

Afternoon Update: I took the scooter on a second test ride (80 mi this time) and again the light never came on. I also duplicated the same conditions by going down the same long grade and stopping at the bottom. Therefore, again, it appears that by keeping the oil at the full mark probably prevents the oil warning light from coming on.

 

[Dale]

All oil is tested for viscosity at 210F. It is then poured through an or phis and is timed to determine what viscosity it falls in. All 40 weight meet 40 but not 50.

To check the lower rating the oil is cooled to -30F for 10W and a paddle is turned by an electric motor, The amperage is taken to determine if it is a 10W oil or lower or higher. So if you are above -30F per the example you only are concerned with the 30 or 40 or 50 of your oil.

 

[Snowdog]

My "check oil" light came on at about 140 miles (total miles). The level was below the "min" mark, so I filled it up which doused the warning.
Someone didn't do a good dealer prep.

 

[qualt]

My "check oil" light came on at about 140 miles (total miles). The level was below the "min" mark, so I filled it up which doused the warning.
Someone didn't do a good dealer prep.

From these posts (where raising the level cures the problem) it appears the warning light is a low oil level warning not a low oil pressure warning. It also appears that it is often a little overly sensitive (although I would rather it is overly sensitive than not sensitive enough).

However, the system may have both a low level and a low pressure warning.

 

[Dale]

Has both low quantity and low pressure. Low quantity if it is like a BMW car will be yellow and low pressure will be red. I have experience regarding the wife 2001 car and bad sensors.

 

[Tompierce]

Has both low quantity and low pressure. Low quantity if it is like a BMW car will be yellow and low pressure will be red.

I do not believe this is correct:

The Technical Design Document says :
The lubrication system is designed as a dry-sump system with a dual oil pump. The oil
is extracted at the lowest point of the crankcase beneath the bedplate and pumped to the oil
tank in front of the transmission space. An electric oil level sensor is integrated into the oil
tank, which outputs a warning in the instrument cluster whenever the oil level is too low.

The owners manual says: Engine oil level too low
General warning light shows yellow. Oil level symbol appears on the display. OIL CHECK is indicated.
The electronic oil level sensor has detected a low engine oil level. Check the engine-oil level with the dipstick the next time you stop to refuel.

The only mention of a RED General warning light in the Owners manual is for front and rear tire pressure.

 

[JaimeC]

Oh good... it's an oil LEVEL warning light (like Yamaha), NOT an oil PRESSURE warning.

With an oil level warning, it's "I have to check that at the next stop." With an oil pressure warning it's "HOLY CRAP! I HAVE TO SHUT DOWN NOW BEFORE PERMANENT ENGINE DAMAGE ENSUES."

Big difference. Thanks for that.

 

[Dale]

Tompierce you are 100% correct I am 100% wrong. We do not have water temp nor oil press. I wish we had an oil temp indicator, I can do more with that than about any other indicator.

 

[yellasei]

interesting thread this, i have never seen the oil warning on my sport and i sometimes ride it hard and through very twisty roads over here in the UK. it is interesting as i have had a couple of problem K1600GT's on my ramp with the same complaint and the oil level sensor has always been in good working order. i have put it down to the motors using semi dry sump setup. i don't know if this helps you guy's but i use the recomended castrol 15/50 and have had no issues with this oil that i feel like i need to change from it.

 

[revtom]

Bought my C 600 Sport about three weeks ago. Had my first service done last week. Mechanic did a new download from BMW. On the way home the oil level warning light came on several times, as others have described, at idle only. Rode back to the shop the following day. The mechanic who did the first service checked the oil level and it was within normal hot range. He added a small amount to bring it up to Max on the dipstick. No warning light at idle since then. The wisdom of this thread seems to be that we've got a very sensitive sensor which can trip at idle even when oil level is within acceptable range. Am I correct that were the oil level truly low, the warning light would stay on when the engine rpms come up to cruising speed?

 

[SteveADV]

I am one of the last one's that should answer anything to do with the bike's mechanicals, but I can tell you I had the same situation after an oil change. I checked the oil myself (pretty much the extent of my knowledge about doing anything under the hood) and after finding the oil level in good shape, I did nothing. After a few days the bike healed itself and the oil light has not reappeared.

 

[Xian Forbes]

At idle you're moor than likely experiencing at drop in oil pressure and not oil level. I get it too on my sport, especially after a longer Fife on a hot day.

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[yellasei]

Basically, these motors are a partial dry sump and the level is changing all the time, the oil level sensor is a pipe with a float attached to it and the difference between upper and lower is less than half an inch. Fill your oil to the upper level and all will be ok. I will post a pic of a sensor later on today.