Scooter won't start

[Jetblack528]

Got on my 650GT this morning for a ride. Turned the ignition on. Pre-start dash indicator fires up. Battery is strong. Plenty of fuel. Side stand up. Brake engaged. Hit the start button and the starter cranks away but engine won't fire. Can not get the bike started. Good thing it's still under warranty with roadside assistance as it looks like it will need to be towed to the dealer.

Grrrr!!!!!!!

UPDATE:

Tried again to start the scoot. It cranked and cranked, but did finally catch. Ran rough for a few seconds then quit. Cranked it again and got it re-started. Was able to give it more throttle and kept it running. Have cycled it on and off a half dozen times and everything acts normal.

Puzzling. Particularly since it was just serviced last month by the dealer and no issues were reported.

 

[toomuchvinyl]

That's an issue that I've never had (yet). I'll be interested to see what you find out.

 

[Lee]

Sorry to hear your frustration! Curious minds want to know the etiology... What year is your bike?

 

[JaimeC]

By any chance, did you drive the bike about 200 feet or less to park it the night before? Seems to be a common problem, if you do a very short ride (like from the curb into the garage) before you park the scooter over night, it acts like it is flooded the next morning. You have to crank and crank and crank and EVENTUALLY it will turn over (but you better take it for a nice long ride and put the bike on a charger when you're done because you've just seriously drained the battery).

I THOUGHT they'd fixed the problem with the latest software flash, but this same thing happened to me a couple of months ago so it wasn't fixed. Now I know to either push the bike into the garage, or take a long, circuitous route from the curb to the garage before parking it.

 

[Jetblack528]

By any chance, did you drive the bike about 200 feet or less to park it the night before? Seems to be a common problem, if you do a very short ride (like from the curb into the garage) before you park the scooter over night, it acts like it is flooded the next morning. You have to crank and crank and crank and EVENTUALLY it will turn over (but you better take it for a nice long ride and put the bike on a charger when you're done because you've just seriously drained the battery).
I THOUGHT they'd fixed the problem with the latest software flash, but this same thing happened to me a couple of months ago so it wasn't fixed. Now I know to either push the bike into the garage, or take a long, circuitous route from the curb to the garage before parking it.

See my updated post. I rode the scooter last weekend--no problems. It has been parked in my garage all week. At one point last week I started the bike on the center stand, but did not move it. It only ran for 10 seconds or so. Maybe that's what caused the problem?

 

[JaimeC]

See my updated post. I rode the scooter last weekend--no problems. It has been parked in my garage all week. At one point last week I started the bike on the center stand, but did not move it. It only ran for 10 seconds or so. Maybe that's what caused the problem?

Dollars to doughnut that was it. So now you know. Don't DO that (and bug your dealer about when BMW will come up with a fix for this problem, too).

 

[TwoPort]

When this happened to me - it was the kickstand/starter lockout that got loose. I manually rotated it and it started. The kickstand and mechanism was replaced under warranty.

 

[exavid]

I had a similar problem with my GT a year or so ago. Once in a while it didn't quite want to start. Took a lot of cranking and would run rough and refuse to idle. It would clear up after a few tries. I used an additive recommended by my dealer, added it to a couple tankfuls of gas and the problem went away. I haven't seen it since. I add a charge of the stuff about every fourth or fifth tankful. The dealer thinks it's something to do with ethanol in the fuel. I know for sure that my bike likes the 93 octane ethanol free gas better than the regular stuff. In Oregon 93 octane is the only gasoline that we can buy without that corn crap in it. Unfortunately since gas stations don't sell a lot of it and they need separate pumps for it the stuff is a good bit more spendy. Anyway I haven't had that problem for over a year and a half or so now. My bike also had the latest ECU flash.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3506023&KPID=5754392&pla=pla_5754392

 

[JaimeC]

Interesting theory. Sadly, in New York, gasohol seems to be the ONLY option. I remember when my mileage on the K1200LT dropped from the low 50s into the mid 40s I figured it was just the engine getting old (it does have over 200,000 miles on it now). However, on a recent trip out west where ethanol-free gasoline was available my mileage went right back up into the low 50s again.

 

[Longrower]

Sounds VERY much like water in the fuel system somewhere. The "ran rough for a few seconds" phrase caught my eye. "...more throttle" to keep it running also sounds familiar. Just ask anyone with a lawn mower in a rainy climate...

 

[Jetblack528]

I had a similar problem with my GT a year or so ago. Once in a while it didn't quite want to start. Took a lot of cranking and would run rough and refuse to idle. It would clear up after a few tries. I used an additive recommended by my dealer, added it to a couple tankfuls of gas and the problem went away. I haven't seen it since. I add a charge of the stuff about every fourth or fifth tankful. The dealer thinks it's something to do with ethanol in the fuel. I know for sure that my bike likes the 93 octane ethanol free gas better than the regular stuff. In Oregon 93 octane is the only gasoline that we can buy without that corn crap in it. Unfortunately since gas stations don't sell a lot of it and they need separate pumps for it the stuff is a good bit more spendy. Anyway I haven't had that problem for over a year and a half or so now. My bike also had the latest ECU flash.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3506023&KPID=5754392&pla=pla_5754392

Thanks for the information. This product is available at my local Home Depot so I will give it a try.

 

[JaimeC]

I find it less expensive to simply NOT run the bike for a short spell before parking it. That's fixed it for me.

 

[exavid]

Interesting theory. Sadly, in New York, gasohol seems to be the ONLY option. I remember when my mileage on the K1200LT dropped from the low 50s into the mid 40s I figured it was just the engine getting old (it does have over 200,000 miles on it now). However, on a recent trip out west where ethanol-free gasoline was available my mileage went right back up into the low 50s again.

Addition of ethanol in gasoline reduces the total BTUs available to the engine. Ergo, lower mileage. Remove the alcohol and run pure gasoline and you get more power and better mileage. One other problem is most of the world isn't stupid enough to use their food for fuel so engines and fuel systems outside the US aren't really designed for ethanol. The injection system can be tweaked by changing the ECU mapping to compensate to some extent but it's just a patch job. Our beloved EPA is still pushing to make the minimum ethanol content up from 10% to 15%. That's going to help a lot... not. One more problem is that ethanol is hygroscopic. It likes water. So fuels sitting around for a length of time exposed to the atmosphere will absorb moisture. Your fuel tank is vented so barometric pressure changes cause air to enter and exit the tank as it sits there or when it's running sucking air into the tank to replace the volume of gasoline exiting to the fuel system. There is no benefit to ethanol use except for corn growers. Some of the additives like the one I use does help with the water problem but can't do much about missing BTUs.

 

[kreiman]

Addition of ethanol in gasoline reduces the total BTUs available to the engine. Ergo, lower mileage. Remove the alcohol and run pure gasoline and you get more power and better mileage. One other problem is most of the world isn't stupid enough to use their food for fuel so engines and fuel systems outside the US aren't really designed for ethanol. The injection system can be tweaked by changing the ECU mapping to compensate to some extent but it's just a patch job. Our beloved EPA is still pushing to make the minimum ethanol content up from 10% to 15%. That's going to help a lot... not. One more problem is that ethanol is hygroscopic. It likes water. So fuels sitting around for a length of time exposed to the atmosphere will absorb moisture. Your fuel tank is vented so barometric pressure changes cause air to enter and exit the tank as it sits there or when it's running sucking air into the tank to replace the volume of gasoline exiting to the fuel system. There is no benefit to ethanol use except for corn growers. Some of the additives like the one I use does help with the water problem but can't do much about missing BTUs.

That's why I'm a loyal member of the AMA. They recently killed the EPA's E15 proposal for at least another year. The damage caused by ethanol is terrible. My brother routinely replaces fuel pumps on cars and trucks that have been ruined by ethanol and I make lots of money rebuilding carbs on bikes that have become all gummed up from ethanol.

BTW... AMA membership comes with free roadside assistance too if you sign up for auto renewal.

 

[Jetblack528]

I talked with the dealer today about the starting problem. Based on the symptoms I described, they believe the problem is fuel related. The service rep says they have seen this issue with other 650 scooters, describing the problem as seeming like the engine is flooded even though it's fuel injected, which is exactly how it felt to me. He suggested using K100 fuel additive or, better yet, fill up with ethanol free "pure gas".

Pure gas is an option for me, just not a convenient one. I think I will start with the fuel additive, perhaps using pure gas on an occasional basis.

 

[JaimeC]

I wonder about this, because in over 200,000 miles my fuel-injected K1200LT has NEVER done this. Neither has my 15 year old fuel-injected Subaru. And I KNOW I've done the "short ride" many times with the K1200LT because there's no WAY I'd push an 850 lbs motorcycle from the curb, up the driveway and into the garage.