Thinking Of Buying A 650

Horizon

New member
Here's the deal. Up until we moved to Mexico, I owned a 2015 650 Burgman, and had to sell it. Since we're moving back to the states, I've been looking into a new, or low miles used BMW 650. But all I seem to hear and read are these high maintenance and poor performance horror stories, of which were non-existent for the Burgman. I love the hell out of the looks of the BMW, but have yet to test drive one. The BMW can't be much heavier than my old Burgman, which had a pretty hefty curb weight. If anyone can point me in an objective and honest direction about ownership, maintenance costs (which sure as hell aren't cheap for any scooter these days)... it would help.

USA bound, and glad of it
 

Delray

Well-known member
Trust your instincts and pursue a BMW C 650 GT. You'll be glad you did. It's a real deal, BMW riding machine.

I'm currently on my sixth. Previously I owned three Burgman 650's (plus six Silver Wings). The BMW is head and shoulders above the Burgman. It looks, handles and sounds like a motorcycle. The Burgman 650 feels like a bathtub on wheels, especially at slow speeds in parking lots -- although I love the jet-engine whine of the CVT as it spools up and down, with a reliable 3,000 rpm's at 50 mph that never ceases to impress.

BMW maintenance is easy. An oil change and filter can be done without removing tupperware; not so with the Burgman. BMW specs 6,000 miles between oil changes while Suzuki specs 3,500. Spark plugs on the BMW are changed at 24,000 miles. On the Burgman it's every 7,500 and you WILL end up with bloody knuckles and a weekly allotment of curse words expended.

BMW is not high maintenance at all. It can be expensive, especially at 24,000 miles, if you're not able to change oil, filters, brake fluid, coolant, plugs and pads yourself. The belt is particularly pricy at a dealer -- around $1,000, but you can buy the same belt from Mitsuboshi for $100, add a BMW variator holder for $30, pick up a BMW Service Manual on DVD for $20 and save yourself around $850. Spend some of that on a nice Utopia back rest. Another pro tip: get a GT with matching top case.

There are more than a few horror stories about mechanical chain tensioners failing on Gen 1.0 models of the BMW (up to and including early 2016's). Not so with Gen 2.0 which have hydraulic chain tensioners. Buy a 2017+ model and you won't have to worry. Occasionally you'll see a Gen 1.0 where the owner pro-actively installed the hydraulic tensioner. I think there is a black 2015 in Virginia still for sale on this forum that looks sharp and is attractively priced. As for the Burgman 650 belt, I'm guessing as a previous owner you know how catastrophic and expensive that failure would be.

All that said, I am head over heels in love with my 2018 Burgman 400. It's a touch longer than the Burgman 650 with much better handling, much easier maintenance and Suzuki is still turning out new B400's in 2024. Might one to check out one of those. It doesn't have the gravitas or high end build of the BMW, but man, it is a blast to ride.
Feb 2024 2019 BMW C 650 GT and 2018 Suzuki Burgman 400.jpg
 
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wspollack

Active member
@Horizon: I think @Delray may be unique in the world, in terms of his multitudinous ownership experiences with those competing 650s ... um, both of which are now defunct. And throw in a few Swing 600s, and now a B400, and he's the man to go to. So I'd give a boatload of credence to what he says.

If you happen to want to, and can afford to, buy something with a warranty, another interesting competition, IMO, involves the currently produced C 400 GT, the B400, and the Kymco AK 550, which, as far as I know, represent the three largest scoots still being manufactured and sold in the USA. I was asked to compare & contrast the GT and the AK the other day, via a comment in a video I put up (www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_zorJZaec), and I threw in the B400 in my answer to that commenter, as well.

BTW, I've now owned two Burgman 650 Execs for a total of 11 years, a pair of C 400 GTs for two years now (one of which I still own), and have spent a total of three and a half weeks renting C 400 Xs for three Edelweiss tours in Europe. So I know a little about the big scooters, too.

The only thing I would add is that I once did a test ride of a 650 Beemer, and found it pleasant enough but also found the seat height obnoxiously far from the ground. So if you're inseam-challenged and you have to stop the scoot sometimes, heads up.

Edit Addition: Okay, one more thing. I'm sort of guessing that the 650 Beemers are built likewise, so there's this: I find the bodywork attachments of the C 400 GT head-and-shoulders better than on the Biggest Burgers. I've taken both C 400 GTs pretty much apart, in terms of the tupperware -- front, middle, and rear -- for assorted electrical farkling, and the spring clips and uniform-sized Torx screws of the GT make the flimsy tab and plastic pop "rivets" on the Execs seem like crap. On both of my Execs, I used cable ties to hold the front panels in place, down by the front wheel/radiator shroud, and I don't see this sort of thing happening with my GT.
 
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Horizon

New member
Trust your instincts and pursue a BMW C 650 GT. You'll be glad you did. It's a real deal, BMW riding machine.

I'm currently on my sixth. Previously I owned three Burgman 650's (plus six Silver Wings). The BMW is head and shoulders above the Burgman. It looks, handles and sounds like a motorcycle. The Burgman 650 feels like a bathtub on wheels, especially at slow speeds in parking lots -- although I love the jet-engine whine of the CVT as it spools up and down, with a reliable 3,000 rpm's at 50 mph that never ceases to impress.

BMW maintenance is easy. An oil change and filter can be done without removing tupperware; not so with the Burgman. BMW specs 6,000 miles between oil changes while Suzuki specs 3,500. Spark plugs on the BMW are changed at 24,000 miles. On the Burgman it's every 7,500 and you WILL end up with bloody knuckles and a weekly allotment of curse words expended.

BMW is not high maintenance at all. It can be expensive, especially at 24,000 miles, if you're not able to change oil, filters, brake fluid, coolant, plugs and pads yourself. The belt is particularly pricy at a dealer -- around $1,000, but you can buy the same belt from Mitsuboshi for $100, add a BMW variator holder for $30, pick up a BMW Service Manual on DVD for $20 and save yourself around $850. Spend some of that on a nice Utopia back rest. Another pro tip: get a GT with matching top case.

There are more than a few horror stories about mechanical chain tensioners failing on Gen 1.0 models of the BMW (up to and including early 2016's). Not so with Gen 2.0 which have hydraulic chain tensioners. Buy a 2017+ model and you won't have to worry. Occasionally you'll see a Gen 1.0 where the owner pro-actively installed the hydraulic tensioner. I think there is a black 2015 in Virginia still for sale on this forum that looks sharp and is attractively priced. As for the Burgman 650 belt, I'm guessing as a previous owner you know how catastrophic and expensive that failure would be.

All that said, I am head over heels in love with my 2018 Burgman 400. It's a touch longer than the 650 with much better handling, much easier maintenance and Suzuki is still turning out new B400's in 2024. Might one to check out one of those. It doesn't have the gravitas or high end build of the BMW, but man, it is a blast to ride.
View attachment 4475
Man..., that Beemer looks sweet! I'll look around, but I'm pretty sure where my gut's gonna take me. I saw a new white Beemer 400 the other day..., and couldn't take my eye's off the thing. It was head and shoulders on a 16 foot ladder above the the Burgman. Thanks for the input on not only the scoot, but also the maintenance tips and manual! I'll let you know when I break the piggy bank. Man..., that's a SWEET SCOOT!!
 

Horizon

New member
@Horizon: I think @Delray may be unique in the world, in terms of his multitudinous ownership experiences with those competing 650s ... um, both of which are now defunct. And throw in a few Swing 600s, and now a B400, and he's the man to go to. So I'd give a boatload of credence to what he says.

If you happen to want to, and can afford to, buy something with a warranty, another interesting competition, IMO, involves the currently produced C 400 GT, the B400, and the Kymco AK 550, which, as far as I know, represent the three largest scoots still being manufactured and sold in the USA. I was asked to compare & contrast the GT and the AK the other day, via a comment in a video I put up (www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_zorJZaec), and I threw in the B400 in my answer to that commenter, as well.

BTW, I've now owned two Burgman 650 Execs for a total of 11 years, a pair of C 400 GTs for two years now (one of which I still own), and have spent a total of three and a half weeks renting C 400 Xs for three Edelweiss tours in Europe. So I know a little about the big scooters, too.

The only thing I would add is that I once did a test ride of a 650 Beemer, and found it pleasant enough but also found the seat height obnoxiously far from the ground. So if you're inseam-challenged and you have to stop the scoot sometimes, heads up.

Edit Addition: Okay, one more thing. I'm sort of guessing that the 650 Beemers are built likewise, so there's this: I find the bodywork attachments of the C 400 GT head-and-shoulders better than on the Biggest Burgers. I've taken both C 400 GTs pretty much apart, in terms of the tupperware -- front, middle, and rear -- for assorted electrical farkling, and the spring clips and uniform-sized Torx screws of the GT make the flimsy tab and plastic pop "rivets" on the Execs seem like crap. On both of my Execs, I used cable ties to hold the front panels in place, down by the front wheel/radiator shroud, and I don't see this sort of thing happening with my GT.
Thanks for the tips and info! It's odd you mention the C 400. As I said to Delray, "I saw a new white Beemer C 400 the other day..., and couldn't take my eye's off the thing. As for style, it was head and shoulders on a 16 foot ladder above the the Burgman" - just gorgeous! I too looking and thinking the KYMCO 500. I've seen a couple here in Mexico. Nice Machines both, but it'll be all about the handle and ride. I'm 6'1, and hoping to hell the ground height deal won't be an issue. How does the C400 handle 2 riders?
 
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Ceesie76

Active member
Don't forget about the C650 Sport. And the extra power of a C650 (60 hp) over a C400 (34). Especially with 2 people and any highway miles ...
 

Horizon

New member
Don't forget about the C650 Sport. And the extra power of a C650 (60 hp) over a C400 (34). Especially with 2 people and any highway miles ...
I'm already with ya. I tried the Suzuki 400 when I bought the 650. When the wife jumped on for a spin..., I knew right there and then that I couldn't trust the 400 to get our collective ass's out of a highway or city cluster f@#*k - and that was without a load carry/side cases. I'm too use to the power of the 650. I'll pretty much stick with what I know. Thanks!
 

Delray

Well-known member
"those competing 650s ... um, both of which are now defunct."

Yes, but the BMW still has ... da funk!

"Don't forget about the C650 Sport."

I test rode a Sport. Definitely a more spirited ride than the GT, but the weird fold-up trunk under the seat made it a non-starter. That made as little sense as the time I stood in front of a new Gold Wing with a salesman and bemoaned the lack of footboards or highway pegs.

"You can add those aftermarket," sales guy said helpfully.

I replied, "So I'm supposed to spend thirty thousand dollars and then spend MORE to make it comfortable on long trips the bike is literally designed for?

"Sorry, that's insane."
 

Horizon

New member
Greta point!! This is why I come here, which is to get the real skinny - real owners, real experience, realistic nightmares and great experiences. I took almost 6 months to buy my Burgman. By the time I went to make the deal, I knew exactly what I was getting into, from service bench costs, manuals, and schedules, right down to the..."watch outs". I spent more time picking out the right helmet and cutting the check, than I did asking about the scooter itself. I despise the... "buying experience".
 

wspollack

Active member
How does the C400 handle 2 riders?
There are two aspects to this question, IMO, so I'll attempt to tackle them separately.


Passenger Ergonomics:

The reason I bought a C 400 GT in the first place is:

1) My sole bike at the time (June 2022) was a 2008 Burgman 650 Exec. It was long in the tooth, and if something major happened to it, e.g., a drive-train problem, I wasn't going to fix it. So I had been looking for a new bike. The AK 550 was tops on my list for a year or so, and I probably would've bought one, had I been able to sit on one.

(Aside: I think the AK looks sharp, too, and the absolute latest version to hit these shores -- or is just about to -- has factory cruise. The lack of that on the C 400s sticks in my craw, and don't even get me started on the jackass Schrader-valve positioning on the Beemer.)

2) In May 2022, my wife (passenger) and I had done two Edelweiss tour weeks on a C 400 X (in Tuscany, www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Tuscany/, and then around Vienna, www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/). At the end of those weeks, my wife said to me, "This is really comfortable. Why don't you get one?"

So that was that, and the day after we got home I called the local dealership, put down a deposit, and ordered one. End of looking for a new bike.

She liked the size and comfort of the rear seat, its position, the position of her feet, and the flatness and position of the pad on the OEM top case.

By contrast, she had never liked any of this on my Execs. The seat is too wide (although this may have changed slightly on the second generation of those 650s) and in conjunction with the floorboard positions means that a typical passenger has to be both bow-legged and pigeon-toed.

BTW, my 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour came stock with three-height-positioning passenger floorboards. And well before that, on my 2000 Valkyrie Interstate, for instance, I replaced the passenger pegs with these super-adjustable mini-boards (along with some other changes for her):

Rear Floorboard.jpg

Also, the sorryass excuse that Givi calls a backrest pad is too hard, poorly shaped, and badly positioned. In fact, a couple of years after buying my first Exec in 2007, I got some HD-clone forms and had a local upholsterer go to work, and wound up with this:

2010-09-15-11-24-33.jpg

So when my wife said that she was comfortable, it wasn't some idle comment. That is, making bikes comfortable for her wasn't our first rodeo.

By the way, I don't think I'd ever seen a C 400 GT (the only version sold in the USA) in person. When I went to take delivery, I was shocked to see that it had built-in passenger floorboards, like the Big Burgers. I had assumed that it would have passenger pegs, like the C 400 X. Well, luckily, the built-in boards fit my wife just fine, better than even the X pegs, so that was a happy ending. Phew!

Bottom line in the ergo dept.: if you have an average size passenger, one who won't ride back there on any bike, rented or owned, without some kind of backstop, then the C 400 GT handles two riders picture perfectly.


Power For Two?:

Now, if your question was instead, or in addition, about the ability of the C 400 to get out of its own way with two aboard, I'd say the short answer is "mostly yes."

Indicative of those bike modifications, my wife and I have done a fair amount of two-up touring over the years. Locally, of course, but also down and back from Albany, NY, to Houston, for example. And western North Carolina. And Gaspe, in Canada. And in addition to those two Edelweiss scooter tours, another European tour, for a week and a half, on an R 850 R (at the same time that I owned one of those myself).

But now that both of us are in our 70s, we don't do long two-up trips. (I'm planning on a C 400 GT jaunt to Asheville, NC, next month, for instance, but it will be solo.) And anyway, long interstate-highway slogs are pretty boring, and no one does Iron Butt or Saddle Sore 1000 runs two-up, right?

Locally, the C 400 is peachy, IMO, just as it was for those out-and-back day trips around Florence and Vienna.

I have a couple of short videos from October 2022, from a day of two-up leaf-peeping in the Catskill Mountains on the scoot:

1) www.billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-70 in my C 400 GT gallery, or www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4ZEyzhDg0 directly on YouTube (six minutes).

2) www.billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-71 in my C 400 GT gallery, or www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAyQGkypYT4 directly on YouTube (17 minutes).

I'd say that we kept up a reasonable back-road pace for that activity. And I just checked my telemetry for the day, and it turns out that we had a top speed of 72.3 mph. Fast enough, I think, and remember that I wasn't even attempting to push it -- my wife's not overly fond of hooliganism -- but there's simply about a dozen-mile stretch of 65-mph interstate that I take to get out of town (cross over the Hudson River) going south, is all.

If you want to see more videos, for just a few minutes, with a little more emphasis on two-up handling, here are two from our Vienna-area trip. We're two-up on a C 400 X, following a solo rider on a C 400 X, who's following the guide on a 300 Vespa (and note that speeds are in km/h, so we're not going all that fast):

3) www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/#S-17 (start at about the nine-minute mark)

4) www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/#S-18 (start at about 6:30, and note that at 7:38, despite my best efforts to show him what we can do, a rider on a GS, I think, flies by).

So, really, how fast or how far do you want to go ... two-up ... on a scooter?

Interestingly, a few weeks ago on BurgmanUSA there was a discussion of some maxi-(or at least biggish)scooters that were referenced in a recent e-mag article. Someone looked up a bunch of alleged weights and power figures, and did some comparisons of power-to-weight figures. I added to that discussion by asserting that bike power-to-weight figures without adding a rider into the mix are silly, which alters things a bit.

Here's the chart that I came up with, mostly using the figures already bandied about in that thread, but adding a rider:

Screenshot 2024-03-02 at 9.35.05 AM.png


(BTW, I think that figure for the Kymco is BS, i.e., really a dry weight, not a wet one. Some of this info is really difficult to find.)


Well, that's my story, regarding, um, two-up-ness on the C 400.

Personally, I think that even my 20-HP Meteor 350 is up to the task of fun local two-up back-road riding (even if it maxes out -- one-up! -- at 72 mph). I've had that bike since last July, and so far my wife refuses to even sit on it in the garage (and I have an added backrest). She claims the passenger seat is too narrow, but my position is that looks can be decieving. I hope to convince her to give it a shot, at least for one day, when the weather warms up a bit around here.
 
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Horizon

New member
There are two aspects to this question, IMO, so I'll attempt to tackle them separately.


Passenger Ergonomics:

The reason I bought a C 400 GT in the first place is:

1) My sole bike at the time (June 2022) was a 2008 Burgman 650 Exec. It was long in the tooth, and if something major happened to it, e.g., a drive-train problem, I wasn't going to fix it. So I had been looking for a new bike. The AK 550 was tops on my list for a year or so, and I probably would've bought one, had I been able to sit on one.

(Aside: I think the AK looks sharp, too, and the absolute latest version to hit these shores -- or is just about to -- has factory cruise. The lack of that on the C 400s sticks in my craw, and don't even get me started on the jackass Schrader-valve positioning on the Beemer.)

2) In May 2022, my wife (passenger) and I had done two Edelweiss tour weeks on a C 400 X (in Tuscany, www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Tuscany/, and then around Vienna, www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/). At the end of those weeks, my wife said to me, "This is really comfortable. Why don't you get one?"

So that was that, and the day after we got home I called the local dealership, put down a deposit, and ordered one. End of looking for a new bike.

She liked the size and comfort of the rear seat, its position, the position of her feet, and the flatness and position of the pad on the OEM top case.

By contrast, she had never liked any of this on my Execs. The seat is too wide (although this may have changed slightly on the second generation of those 650s) and in conjunction with the floorboard positions means that a typical passenger has to be both bow-legged and pigeon-toed.

BTW, my 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour came stock with three-height-positioning passenger floorboards. And well before that, on my 2000 Valkyrie Interstate, for instance, I replaced the passenger pegs with these super-adjustable mini-boards (along with some other changes for her):

View attachment 4481

Also, the sorryass excuse that Givi calls a backrest pad is too hard, poorly shaped, and badly positioned. In fact, a couple of years after buying my first Exec in 2007, I got some HD-clone forms and had a local upholsterer go to work, and wound up with this:

View attachment 4477

So when my wife said that she was comfortable, it wasn't some idle comment. That is, making bikes comfortable for her wasn't our first rodeo.

By the way, I don't think I'd ever seen a C 400 GT (the only version sold in the USA) in person. When I went to take delivery, I was shocked to see that it had built-in passenger floorboards, like the Big Burgers. I had assumed that it would have passenger pegs, like the C 400 X. Well, luckily, the built-in boards fit my wife just fine, better than even the X pegs, so that was a happy ending. Phew!

Bottom line in the ergo dept.: if you have an average size passenger, one who won't ride back there on any bike, rented or owned, without some kind of backstop, then the C 400 GT handles two riders picture perfectly.


Power For Two?:

Now, if your question was instead, or in addition, about the ability of the C 400 to get out of its own way with two aboard, I'd say the short answer is "mostly yes."

Indicative of those bike modifications, my wife and I have done a fair amount of two-up touring over the years. Locally, of course, but also down and back from Albany, NY, to Houston, for example. And western North Carolina. And Gaspe, in Canada. And in addition to those two Edelweiss scooter tours, another European tour, for a week and a half, on an R 850 R (at the same time that I owned one of those myself).

But now that both of us are in our 70s, we don't do long two-up trips. (I'm planning on a C 400 GT jaunt to Asheville, NC, next month, for instance, but it will be solo.) And anyway, long interstate-highway slogs are pretty boring, and no one does Iron Butt or Saddle Sore 1000 runs two-up, right?

Locally, the C 400 is peachy, IMO, just as it was for those out-and-back day trips around Florence and Vienna.

I have a couple of short videos from October 2022, from a day of two-up leaf-peeping in the Catskill Mountains on the scoot:

1) www.billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-70 in my C 400 GT gallery, or www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4ZEyzhDg0 directly on YouTube (six minutes).

2) www.billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-71 in my C 400 GT gallery, or www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAyQGkypYT4 directly on YouTube (17 minutes).

I'd say that we kept up a reasonable back-road pace for that activity. And I just checked my telemetry for the day, and it turns out that we had a top speed of 72.3 mph. Fast enough, I think, and remember that I wasn't even attempting to push it -- my wife's not overly fond of hooliganism -- but there's simply about a dozen-mile stretch of 65-mph interstate that I take to get out of town (cross over the Hudson River) going south, is all.

If you want to see more videos, for just a few minutes, with a little more emphasis on two-up handling, here are two from our Vienna-area trip. We're two-up on a C 400 X, following a solo rider on a C 400 X, who's following the guide on a 300 Vespa (and note that speeds are in km/h, so we're not going all that fast):

3) www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/#S-17 (start at about the nine-minute mark)

4) www.billanddot.com/2022-05-Vienna/#S-18 (start at about 6:30, and note that at 7:38, despite my best efforts to show him what we can do, a rider on a GS, I think, flies by).

So, really, how fast or how far do you want to go ... two-up ... on a scooter?

Interestingly, a few weeks ago on BurgmanUSA there was a discussion of some maxi-(or at least biggish)scooters that were referenced in a recent e-mag article. Someone looked up a bunch of alleged weights and power figures, and did some comparisons of power-to-weight figures. I added to that discussion by asserting that bike power-to-weight figures without adding a rider into the mix are silly, which alters things a bit.

Here's the chart that I came up with, mostly using the figures already bandied about in that thread, but adding a rider:

View attachment 4479


(BTW, I think that figure for the Kymco is BS, i.e., really a dry weight, not a wet one. Some of this info is really difficult to find.)


Well, that's my story, regarding, um, two-up-ness on the C 400.

Personally, I think that even my 20-HP Meteor 350 is up to the task of fun local two-up back-road riding (even if it maxes out -- one-up! -- at 72 mph). I've had that bike since last July, and so far my wife refuses to even sit on it in the garage (and I have an added backrest). She claims the passenger seat is too narrow, but my position is that looks can be decieving. I hope to convince her to give it a shot, at least for one day, when the weather warms up a bit around here.
 

Horizon

New member
Valkyrie!? You don't know how close I came in 2015 to buying a new one in Florida. Just a gorgeous blue monster that had been marked down because it wasn't moving, and - and love at first sight. But the wife didn't share my passion, and I got the Burg 650. Until now, I wasn't even aware of the Valkyrie Interstate even existed.., or I might not even be on this forum right now asking about future Beemer choices. I even went as far yesterday, as to looking up used Valkyrie prices. I've never forgotten that bike, and the wife knows my frustration until this day!
 

wspollack

Active member
Valkyrie!? You don't know how close I came in 2015 to buying a new one in Florida. Just a gorgeous blue monster that had been marked down because it wasn't moving, and - and love at first sight. But the wife didn't share my passion, and I got the Burg 650. Until now, I wasn't even aware of the Valkyrie Interstate even existed.., or I might not even be on this forum right now asking about future Beemer choices. I even went as far yesterday, as to looking up used Valkyrie prices. I've never forgotten that bike, and the wife knows my frustration until this day!
Here's my vintage Valk gallery:


Pic 2 is at Deals Gap / Tail of the Dragon. Pics 3 and 4 were in a local parking lot, taking Lee Parks' Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic (taught by Mr. Parks himself, before he got too busy running California's rider-training course); I was an MSF RiderCoach at the time, and got a nice discount on the price.

I bought that bike new in 2000, and sold it in 2007 (to an individual in British Columbia) and used the proceeds to buy my first Burgman 650.

The bike was smooth and powerful. On the main Valk forum, one of the on-going threads was about the "nickel trick." This involved balancing a nickel, on edge, on valve cover, with the engine running.

And, as I've indicated, very comfortable for the passenger ... and the pilot, too.

And it had screw-and-locknut valve adjustment, so even a caveman (me) could adjust the valves.

On the negative side:

- You had six carbs to synchronize. I bought a special 4+2 device for that, and it was still quite an ordeal.

- Changing the air filter entailed removing the huge gas tank. And reattaching a hose almost always involved cutting a hand.

- It was heavy in general, and top heavy in particular. I dropped it a few times, backing up while parking, or just having a pebble underneath a shoe while moving it around, and so forth. I replaced the crashbars shortly before I sold it.

- It locked your feet into one position. It wasn't a bad position, mind you -- sort of straight down -- but it was still one position. I tried highway bars, but I couldn't really get them close enough. And that engine was pretty wide, too, which complicates this whole topic.

- You'd think an obvious tourer like that would have factory cruise control, but it didn't. A few folks added automotive-based cruise to theirs, but I never got around to it. (By contrast, I added an MC Cruise to my Burgman in 2007, and my Victory came stock with it, real throttle cables and all.)

- "It handles like a pig," I came to realize, some time later. I thought it handled okay when I owned one, and handling doesn't matter all that much, anyway, if you're doing a lot of touring. Fast forward, and I bought a Victory Cross Country Tour (https://www.billanddot.com/victory-xct/). During that time (2012-2017), a good friend from Canada stayed with us, riding down on his Valk (just the standard model -- no topcase, for instance). We did some bike-swapping on the scenic and sweeping Taconic State Parkway, and that's when I uttered those words to myself. So I guess it's all relative, but the Vic handled so much better than the Valk. (And the Vic had an exceptionally low seat, no top-heaviness, and great stretch-out ergos. Only real problem with that bike was that it was air/oil-cooled, and was very hot unless you were moving right along.)

- That bigness gets to you after a while; at least it did for me. When I switched -- and I did this twice, in terms of ownership -- from a 900 lb. bagger to a 610 lb. Burger, it seemed so much less of a "project" to just back a bike out of the garage for, say, a short run to the hardware store. That's all relative, too, of course: I had this same feeling of relief when I dropped 140 lbs., going from the second 650 Burgman to the C 400 GT. Really. I had both of those in the garage for a few months, and when I went to move the 650 around in the garage -- I changed the oil, etc., shortly before I sold it -- I said to myself, "Whoa, this bike is a handful."

Or maybe I'm just getting old.

In any case, I spend a mostly enjoyable seven years with that bike, but, just like all the others, it's not a perfect bike. Oh, yeah, and you how Picasso had his "blue period" for some time? I had my "chrome period" with that bike. Kind of silly, but at least I got that out of my system, one and done.
 

RollaCosta

Active member
BMW C650 GT is almost the perfect bike. I was surprised at how "innocuous" it handles, while looking "big and puffed". Filtering was also the same as the Sport.
I would have gotten one, but now I am too invested in the C650 Sport, and I like to be able to put my feet on the passenger pegs, sort of "gripping the underseat" with my legs while doing very sporty twisties. This is not possible on the GT.
So in the BMW's naming, every letter in either "S.p.o.r.t." or the "G.T." really means it, they're not double-faced liars those Bavarians.
 

Horizon

New member
I'm going to have to wait until I get to Florida in June, before I do anything. There are lots of choices (a good thing) to be had. I'd been looking into the KYMCO as well. Plenty of dealerships, and a lot of good low milage used prices then KYMCO's as well - though the Beemer is still tops on my list, with a 50/50 lean towards your 400 satisfaction. Your European excursion distances have me thinking.
 

mzflorida

Active member
I'm going to have to wait until I get to Florida in June, before I do anything. There are lots of choices (a good thing) to be had. I'd been looking into the KYMCO as well. Plenty of dealerships, and a lot of good low milage used prices then KYMCO's as well - though the Beemer is still tops on my list, with a 50/50 lean towards your 400 satisfaction. Your European excursion distances have me thinking.
Welcome back. I'm here in SW Florida year-round. Though it's hot in the summer (I like riding in the heat), at least most of the tourists are gone. Good time to get used to the roads and routes. I'm seriously thinking about the 650 also. That one @Delray posted looks pretty nice.
 

Horizon

New member
I just saw the 400GT again about two hours ago. It’s nice…, but I’m up for the 650.

You’re right about Florida. I use to get on the country backroads in Hernando and Pasco counties, ride out a full tank, fill up, and head back out. Another nice ride was Bayport and Tampa Bay inlet roads. Can’t wait to get back.
 

zx10guy

Member
I didn't know the C400GT doesn't have cruise control. This might be a deal killer for me if I want to add another scoot to my inventory. I currently have a 2016 C650 Sport. There are many times I wished my Sport has integrated cruise as my 2022 S1000RR has it. But I get that there's a generation/technology differential at play here. But for the C400GT being a current model, I think it's a huge oversight on BMW's part. This is making the AK550 more attractive.

One thing I like about the C650 Sport over the GT is the lower weight by about 25 lbs. I like to rail around corners as evidenced with owning an RR. I've had my Sport leaned over far enough on both sides to scrape the clearance feelers on the center stand.
 

wspollack

Active member
I didn't know the C400GT doesn't have cruise control. This might be a deal killer for me if I want to add another scoot to my inventory. I currently have a 2016 C650 Sport. There are many times I wished my Sport has integrated cruise as my 2022 S1000RR has it. But I get that there's a generation/technology differential at play here. But for the C400GT being a current model, I think it's a huge oversight on BMW's part. This is making the AK550 more attractive.

One thing I like about the C650 Sport over the GT is the lower weight by about 25 lbs. I like to rail around corners as evidenced with owning an RR. I've had my Sport leaned over far enough on both sides to scrape the clearance feelers on the center stand.
Yeah, the lack of cruise is one of the annoyances I have with the C 400 GT, as I do, or try to do, one or two multi-day highway slogs each year (to visit a daughter in Asheville, for instance -- the good part of that is that Deals Gap, the Cherahola Skyway, etc., is then only two hours away).

I find that a tremendous oversight, given that the 400 has throttle-by-wire. How hard would it have been to add cruise? See my gallery pic https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-12 for my halfass solution, and another recommendation.

The other gripe I have regards being able to add an external TPMS sensor to only the rear wheel (and an internal TPMS sensor is not offered as an option). See this particular pic and caption for my comment on that: https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-61

Now, having mention those negatives (and the underseat storage is nothing to write home about, either, and I wouldn't kick an aftermarket suspension out of my garage), let me also add a positive, since you also mention this: the handling is superb!

At home, in a total of about 6,000 miles now on the two C 400 GTs, I have yet to scrape anything on a lean, and I've tried -- and have always felt very planted and confident while trying. This is a first for me, over the course of 26 years, covering an R850R standard, Valkyrie and Victory baggers, and two Burgman 650s (and, after only 2,000 miles, I'm still getting acquainted with my other current ride, a Meteor 350, but I expect to grind off its peg feelers this season).

Last July, I participated in Edelweiss' Ultimate Alps Tour ... on a C 400 X; see https://www.billanddot.com/Ultimate-Alps-Tour/ . We sorted ourselves out after a day or two, and I hung out in the fast half of the ten customer bikes (most of which were RTs, with couples aboard). Over the course of a week-and-a-half of hairpins, I got down to lean angles of 43° left and 41° right (I have a modern GoPro that can accurately track this sort of thing), which is pretty far. And only one time, and very lightly, did I manage to scrape anything (and that was on a tighty-righty, suspension-loading downhill switchback). My point is that I put that scooter through its handling paces, and it came out smelling like a rose.

And that's why I really like the C 400 GT, even with its shortcomings. I'm old, but not dead (or all that slow) yet. Well, that, and my wife told me to buy one.
 
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